Human v AI in Sales-When Does AI Hurt Trust

Rob  00:00

Welcome back, everybody to The Slow Pitch, and today we have a guest. His name is Joe Casalis, and we have a interesting conversation that’s going to be happening. We’re going to talk a little bit about sales, but also some marketing components, and let’s see where this gets us. So, Joe, if you would, let’s talk a little bit about what you are doing and what you offer that’ll help people set the table. So, to speak of what we’re what we’re talking about.

Joe  00:27

So Roof Bids, MyRoofBids.com, is an online platform that helps property owners find local, vetted roof contractors without the hassle of being called on by door-knocking salespeople or spamming phone calls, where their information gets shotgun out to 20 different contractors. We try to make it a seam, seamless, easy, trustworthy process where they can get it all done online until the crews actually show up for the roofs. That’s the current platform we’re at right now.

Rob  01:09

Interesting. So it’s kind of like if I go to the website and it’s my roofbits.com if I go there, I need a roof, I would then enter my address, right? And then you’re going to get quotes for me, and there’s probably more information that you’re going to gather from me before that.

Joe  01:25

Correct? Yes. And just to what happens is your information, just your address and the roofing measurements, get sent to the contractor, your name, phone number, email does not get sent. The contractor gets the pictures, the roof measurements, and they put together their quotes, and they send it back through the platform.

And you, on your dashboard, have three side by side comparisons of material, warranty, obviously, price, where you can see everything compared side by side, apples to apples. And then you select your contractor from there, and then they get your contact information to send you what you need to actually get the roof done at that point.

Rob  02:05

So that is different than some of the other sites that are out there. Right to me, I’m hearing first thing I think of when I visit a site like this is like, I don’t want my information scatter shot out to everybody, and then all of a sudden, I get 50 phone calls, right? Which is usually what happens. I get all these phone calls, emails, everything blasted at me for like, hours on end after I do it, and that’s not what you’re doing.

Joe  02:29

Correct, yeah. So we learned from when I was in the roofing industry as a sales person, we would get these leads from, I’ll just, just say the, you know, the other lead sources that are out there, and I would almost like cringe, because I knew it’s a cold lead, I’m going to try and chase this down, and it’s not going to be legit. And on the other side, that homeowner has 10 to 15 other contractors calling them, saying, hey, can I come out and make an appointment?

So, we learned we’re not going to do that. You enter your information. The only person that’s going to contact you is the person that you choose based on the information Roof Bids has given you through the system. So, it’s the initial contact is actually it’s initiated by the property owner. They say who they want, and then they will be contacted.

Rob  03:22

Okay, so that’s, that’s a good thing to start with. So, to me, that that’s really a good way to start and position the whole brand for you. So, you’re, you know, you reached out a little while ago and said, hey, I’d like to be able to have ask a couple questions on sales things. So, what seems to be the issue, or the problems that you’re running into. You launched it not too long ago, and so what are some of the issues that you’re running into?

Joe  03:45

So, I started this, Roof Bids about four years ago, doing it in person, manually. So, I would, I would get a lead. I’d show up at the house do what I used to do when I worked for a roofing company, and knock on the door and say, Hey, I’d like to give you a quote for a roof but with the difference when with roof bids, when I was doing what I say manually, was that, hey, it’s not just me, but I’m going to get you three quotes. How does that sound?

Joe  04:14

And so I was in person, I was having a dialog, I was building the trust, and I would once I got their attention that I’m going to do all the work for them, they would allow me to go get the three quotes, I put it into a spreadsheet, and they would make a decision from there, what has happened now? The reason why we did put it online was because we wanted to have a quicker process.

Joe  04:39

Things are happening online all the time, and you don’t need somebody to show up at your house, but what I have lost a little bit is personal touch. So, I think that’s kind of created this gap of where I was and where I want to be so that we can scale the business and grow to a larger audience.

Rob  05:00

Yes, that’s an interesting point, because of the personal touch, I’ve always said that people don’t buy just because they want to buy, right? There’s usually some sort of trust level that’s there. There’s usually some sort of component that makes them go, all right, I can, I can trust this person to do what they say they’re going to do. And so, when you bring them to a website, it kind of loses what you’re saying, right? You’ve kind of lost some of that touch. So how do you how are you combating that? Now, how do you combat that?

Joe  05:26

So, through elements. You know, first thing the website itself, we try to make it sort of friendly. If you, if you go to my roofbits.com, you’ll see it’s almost like cartoonish. It’s light there. There is one person, that, actual person, that pops up, and its explainer video, but the rest of it is just kind of light and fun. Yep, it’s not a hard roof contract or website with just scrolling pages.

Joe  05:53

We try to make it fun with some of the feedback, you know, we we say, Hey, we’re not like those other guys that share your information, and then we the other side of it is through our social media campaign, we try to put out the trust element with information we’re sharing with stories that we’re telling. The other side of it is the scams that are happening. Yeah? That pushes them towards the how do I find something to trust. So, we kind of play both sides.

Rob  06:22

Yep, no, that makes sense. So yeah, you’re right. When you visit, it’s, it’s, you know, it is fun, it’s easy to understand or easy to read through. I’m just curious about the explainer video, is that a real person, or is that a AI generated person?

Joe  06:37

Because, yeah, that’s actually a good question. It is actually a real person, but she probably could just as well be AI generated. Because, I mean, I’ve seen, actually, the guy that produced that video said to me, hey, you know, we could have done this for like $500 instead of the what I paid for having a spokesperson the production. But I wanted a real person because of the trust factor, because AI is not quite there yet, although it’s getting there, I wanted a real person.

Rob  07:09

Yeah, I find that to be interesting too, because I do see it trending towards being more and more lifelike. But there’s also a point of if, I mean, imagine if that. I’m not saying you should do this, but if you, if you had a website where you’re trying to gain and earn some trust from the viewer or from the from the visitor, if you will, from the site, if you had a video of you on the site talking about what you’ve done, it might have been more, maybe, maybe not. I mean, yes, he smiled, but like, what are your thoughts?

Joe  07:39

Yeah, I just had a conversation with somebody that said that exact thing. He’s like, I like Corey, is her name, and read and I like her. Her personality is dynamic. I picked her because she actually knows the roofing industry. She’s very entertaining. But he said, “I would rather, rather hear it from you.” And I was like, but nobody wants to hear, you know, from a 52-year-old, gray haired, bearded guy about roofing. And he said, “That’s exactly why I would do.”

Rob  08:14

Yeah, so my, my impression is the same, because when I saw it the first time I looked at your site, my thought was, why is your why are you not there, and not that you have to be there? But wouldn’t it be more powerful to say, Hey, you’re visiting the site because you need a new roof, you know it. You’ve got to find somebody, and you know the problems that it causes.

Rob  08:36

You’re going to get 1000s of emails, you’re gonna get 1000s of calls, you’re gonna get people you don’t even know showing up at your doorstep. You your doorstep. I didn’t like that either, and this is why I created this. And that resonates with people. But it does is it says you can listen you don’t know me, is what you can almost say, You don’t know me. But I’ve been in the roofing industry.

Rob  08:56

I know the tricks that they play. I know the things that they’re gonna say. One of the things that I do is just vet them out, and I know this person is not going to be around very long, just based on the things that they’re saying. And I know this person is going to be excellent, because of this type of roof, this type of house, this area, they are the well-known and they are taking care of tons of people already.

Could you imagine that video being there rather than her telling you not that what she’s doing is wrong, but I would feel like that’s more powerful as a visitor to a to a website. What are your thoughts?

Joe  09:26

Yeah, I’m shaking my head, because I think that’s great advice. I think you’re spot on. I think from an emotional standpoint, what you’re telling me, I think it makes the sales process start with trust and knowing somebody, but then, you know, we get them into a platform that just speeds the process up, but that we make this initial sort of handshake conversation.

Joe  09:59

My…hesitation to putting me on the website is that I don’t, I don’t want them to trust me. I want them to trust the website. But I think what I’m hearing from you and a couple others recently was, if they trust me, they’ll trust the website… Is that what you’re saying. That is dead on.

Rob  10:19

Because here’s the thing, if you’re doing this, and I know you’re doing this in a local area, right, this is where you’re really starting it out. And I think this is a good where you’re testing it. You’re saying, okay, let’s make sure this works, right?

Rob  10:30

You’re vetting these people, you’re working through the process, you’re working out the problems, all that’s great. Now you want to expand, and you want to go nationwide, you’re going to go through the same steps that you did in Orlando or wherever that you will anywhere, right? You’re going to go through those same steps.

Rob  10:44

You’re going to look at reviews, you’re going to contact them, you’re going to interview some of them. You may have to have them fill out some forms. You may have to give them, give you information, whatever that process is behind the scenes that’s going to be where you’re going to be the vet. You’re going to vet that all out. That’ll all finish up later.

Rob  10:58

What you’re saying is, that’s my job. That’s what I do, right? And it resonates more. And I always go back to when you’re dealing with sales, nothing sells more than pain or emotions. So, you’re going to with the video. So, the first one thing when I did when I watched this video, is like, okay, that’s nice. It didn’t elicit any pain or elicit any emotional feeling towards it. It was like, okay, I can see where the… I can see where this be helpful.

Rob  11:24

But then questions crept up in my mind, which was exactly what you said that other people do you know now you’re on a list. You had 1000 phone calls, all of that, whereas if you were standing there saying, no, no, you’re not going to get all that. I’ve been doing this. I know what that’s like. I don’t like that either.

Rob  11:38

This is for somebody just like you, it just speaks to that pain of this is such going to be a process of getting phone calls and having to tell people no and stop calling me and having them show up at my doorstep when they shouldn’t be there, those types of things. That’s what you’re going to prevent.

Rob  11:53

That’s the pain you’re going to talk about in that video. And you should start it out with the biggest pain they have, whether that’s the time or the you know, you know what those pains would be for them at the time that it takes to go find those, those different quotes, the pain of having to deal with all the phone calls, whatever that might be, right?

Rob  12:09

So I don’t know what you think, but, but I that’s almost the feel that I have, is that you should probably look at doing something like not to say that this is bad, but you should have something social media directly related to that and other,

Joe  12:21

Yeah, no… you’re, you’re 100% accurate. I just didn’t want to see that.

Rob  12:29

I know nobody wants to be on camera.

Joe  12:32

Yeah, well, and I, you know, I thought, hey, they’re gonna, they’re, they’re gonna scroll and they’re gonna see a, you know, a pretty face that’s not non-threatening, so male and female. And then there is an explainer video that tells you how to walk through and what I’m hearing you say is, they don’t need a video that tells them how to walk through it and what’s going to happen, because it actually is pretty self explanatory, like it, you know, it’s all there.

Joe  13:01

What I’m challenged by is trust. How do I get them to trust me? And so if I’m there as the voice telling, telling them how I got to how Roof Bids came to be and why it is needed in the roofing industry. Because the truth is that roofing is in the top five Home Improvement scams consistently, year in and year out, and it may be number one, especially in places like Florida, Texas, Louisiana, where hurricanes come through.

Joe  13:34

So there is, you know, this big fear. And so I, you know, I think you’re right. I probably need to lead not with the How to but why, yeah. And I hear that all the time now I’m answering my question that I that I have known…It’s not what I want.

Rob  13:52

Yeah, well, and I mean, think about it, when you buy something, you want a new car, it’s not I want to be able to get this horsepower, and I want to be able to get from point A to point, no, the point the car. I want a car that looks nice. I want to feel good in it. I want to, like, well, all of those things that are emotionally related, not, well, what horsepower does it have?

Rob  14:10

Like, that’s that nobody cares about, that you might care that maybe that’s one of the pain points that you have, but it’s the emotional connection that you’re going to have to whatever it is you’re buying. And a roof is a roof. Like, to me, it’s like, who cares about your roof until it’s leaking right? And then it’s like, I need a roof. Now, how do I fix this? And I gotta fix it right away. And and there’s the pain.

Rob  14:31

And so when somebody lands at your website, they’re in need of a roof. I mean, your first message when you get on camera almost needs to start out with, you’re probably here because you have a roof leak or a need to replace your roof, there are so many problems that are about to hit you unless you follow what we’re going to do.

And here’s the things that we’re going to eliminate for you, like whatever that structure of that message might be, you’re going to want to make sure that they understand, that you get their pains, and the fact that you’ve been in roofing for many years, you were in the sales side, you know all the questions that they’re going to ask. It’s the same with this, right?

Rob  15:02

So it’s just addressing those questions, but I or the emotional part, but I think you’re right that you have all of those how to’s questions are in the text. It’s pretty easy. Like the very first thing you see when you land on the page is enter your home address and get quotes. Then you follow the process. It’s not that hard.

Rob  15:17

So to me, it’s not that. I think it’s the emotional connection, and I think it’s more of the scam piece that they’re afraid of. And for you to be able to stand there and go listen if you don’t believe it and it would be cool if on your website, on your on your video, or on your website says you don’t believe me, call me. I bet nobody calls.

Rob  15:39

Give them a number that’s totally separate, and then it rings, and you see how many calls you get, and maybe you get none, maybe you get some. But all of a sudden, they call you, and they go, Well, tell me about how this works. Well, what’s your what is your issue? What do you need? What’s… you know… What do you Why are you asking? And then they start telling you why they’re asking you with the because they’ve been through this problem already.

Rob  15:54

They just did this, and now they’ve got six quotes. They don’t know what’s right, what’s wrong. You got a whole other side gig that could go on, that you could consult on, just for that, if you really wanted to.

Joe  16:04

Yeah, I I’m hearing you, and it’s great advice, it is, and this is why I wanted to, you know, be on your show, is because kind of at this point of like, I need someone to tell me what I don’t want to hear or what I’m missing, because I went in with this, you know, certain premise of, I’m going to do it this way, like I want to be the Carvana of the roof industry, like, where people just go online, they buy a car, a car shows up.

Joe  16:36

And I think there are steps that kind of go along the way with that. And, you know, we want, I don’t want, I guess I am getting ahead of myself and thinking I’m just going to be the Carvana or the Zillow, where people are just paying for these roofs.

Joe  16:56

But there’s a there’s a learning process that we have to get through and for people to trust that this is a resource that that people can come to and hear a voice like I didn’t want a phone number, even though, when I go on to websites and I can’t find a phone number, it’s so frustrating to me.

Joe  17:14

But I didn’t want a phone number on Roof Bids’ website, I gave in, and there is one, but I didn’t want those phone calls. But you’re 100% right again, that people still in today’s digital world, in the social media world, they are actually wanting just a little bit of real personal contact through the phone, whatever it is when you get on the chat little, you know, corner conversation thing, first thing I do is get me a human. I don’t want to talk to an AI bot. I want answers. I want responses from a human. And you know exactly the difference between the two. So yeah, I hear you.

Rob  17:59

So let me ask you that then, when you put the chat box in here, if I click that want to chat with somebody, does it go to a human or does it not?

Rob  18:07

No, it doesn’t right now.

Rob  18:09

Okay, so and again, this is you’re not on. This is not unusual people. I’ve seen this all the time, where people say, I don’t like this, but then they go and do it themselves, and then they wonder why. So I listen. It’s okay. That’s normal for human behavior, if you will. But if you think of everything in terms of just through the lens of the customer, the client, what have you.

Rob  18:33

I used to work in retail, and when I worked in retail, there was a buyer there. His name was Bill, and I used to run a store, and he came into the store one day and he, we were walking down the dog food aisle, and he’s, he says to me, you know, our store brand didn’t sell for a while. And I’m like, why is he telling me this? He’s like, well, it wasn’t selling for a while, and I couldn’t figure out why.

Rob  18:54

And so I started doing some different tests, and I that my crew was like, they were working on ingredients and all these other things. And then he said, you know what, all this is great. I don’t doesn’t make any difference. Why would I do this? Let’s do this. And he basically got a couple of different variety brands brought in.

Rob  19:10

Then he asked his team and surrounding team to bring their dogs in, and he fed punch bowls out see where the dogs liked. And he basically used the phrase. He said, why don’t you ask the dogs? That’s his phrase to remind himself, go ask the dogs when it’s time, to figure out what does the client or customer really wants.

Rob  19:31

And so to me, this is the same concept. What would you do? And the other thing to keep aware of is, just because you want a certain thing doesn’t mean everybody does. You know, my wife is one of those that would rather just chat with somebody than call somebody.

Rob  19:32

Then call somebody, and then there’s other people that would rather call somebody than chat with somebody. So you kind of have to work with all of that. But if you’re I do think there’s a trend for people that if there’s an AI option, sometimes that’s helpful for high level, very easy things, but when you have some very specific.

Rob  19:59

Details or questions, an AI chat bot doesn’t work. I had something that I bought the other day that’s related to this podcast that I had a question on, and I paid for it. And then I had to ask them some more questions on support. I went to their chat check. Couldn’t answer me to go to this page. Go to this page. I’m like, that doesn’t help me.

Finally, I had to just email them. And they, they emailed me back here’s the Help Page. Like, okay, guess I’m not getting help. I just returned it. Like, I don’t, whatever, but, but some people just think that’s okay. And so there’s nothing wrong with having gone through that, that way. Yeah.

Joe  20:32

So I like that, so I need to start asking the dogs, is what you’re saying?

Rob  20:36

I think so. That’s usually… you know… What’s funny is, that’s what they want, that’s usually what they’ll buy, right? So yeah, and I think I do like the directness of saying in the video, if you don’t believe me, just call me. I can answer any question you have, and in or even in there, like, you know, it depends on how big and how quick, and you can always edit it out.

Rob  20:57

But like, you can say you have three options, and if you’re not sure which one you want to choose, you could call me. Or if you’re not sure if this one that you have is actually legitimate, call me and I can tell you why they are like that, that that could be is something that’s a service, that’s an extra, maybe that’s a, you know, whatever. I don’t know.

Rob  21:14

But I think there’s different ways that you could slice and dice this a little bit to make it a little more I do like the Carvana idea. I do like that, because roofing is a very… you’re right, is a very scam ridden environment for these types of things, for people to get and taken advantage of. But it’s not as you know, it’s not everybody, either. You know what I mean. So, you’ve got, you’re right, you’ve got good people out there, and you’re able to find them. And I think that’s the key.

Joe  21:39

Yes, yeah, I think you’re right. I think there’s a couple things I was thinking about when you said, you know, have them call. I remember Zappos being, you know, just kind of coming out of the blue, like, why am I going to buy shoes online? But the coolest thing about them was their customer service online so you so you can actually call and ask them for the joke of the day, or what’s the weather in Seattle, and they’ll have the answers for you.

Joe  22:14

And it became like a catch for them, where even if you weren’t buying shoes, you were calling Zappos, a shoe company, same thing. Maybe there’s something to with that. I do like that idea. I don’t like the idea of them calling me, but no, I do like, but … I hear you, yeah.

Rob  22:31

But in the beginning, you might have to do some of that. And I think here’s another thing that’s kind of interesting. There was a car dealership here, where I am locally, who used to do a commercial. Now all the car commercials are what? They’re loud. They’re screaming at you. They’re the save, save, save.

Rob  22:48

This guy did so much of the opposite. Basically, what he did is start out the video or the commercial with silence, and then he would show text on screen with cars, and then maybe a little music, and then he would have a phone call. You could hear the phone ring, and he would answer it with his name, like he was answering the phone that way. And there was a, there was a point where what he said is, if you have any problems with any of my car dealerships, you call me and I will take care of that problem.

Rob  23:16

And I’ll bet, I’ll bet he didn’t get any calls, and if he did, it was probably a few, every once in a while, but his somebody told me one time, because they did call him just to test it, and he answered it. That’s how he answered it. It was him. And he was like; I was shocked that it was him. And he goes, he told the guy, he’s like, yeah, I get that all the time. People call me just to test it, and he goes, that’s fine. I hope you have a good day like that.

Rob  23:39

That was it. Like, you’re absolutely right. Zappos did it. That guy did it. Like, have fun with it. And you might find that it gets to be a little bit little bit, little bit of a different game. You could also incorporate some social media posts with that, like getting a phone call and answering those questions and like, I’m on the phone. Like, you could make some fun stuff out of that too.

Rob  23:53

So there’s a lot of opportunities. I love it, so Joe, I hope that it helped with a little bit of kind of direction on what you were doing with the website and how you were approaching it. And I’m hoping that when you do some of these changes, if you can do those, and I know that’s Listen, it’s an investment, I get that and, and, but sometimes, when these little tweaks can happen, that’s where you learn even more. And so there’s data points from that that you’re going to go, Okay, now I know I can do this.

Rob  24:17

And when you, by the way, when you create the video, if you do that, I would create several little scripts and record as many of things as possible for options, so that when you edit, you can always pull things in and out, pull things in and out, and edit accordingly, and then you’re at least wearing the same clothes. You look the same like you don’t have to worry about all those types of things.

Rob  24:33

So, but hopefully that that will help you convert into some more sales. I know there’s a whole process and no sales funnel that goes with it. But if you’re doing stuff online as a listener, you’re doing stuff online where you’re trying to funnel people through. Just keep in mind that when people arrive at your website, it’s a sales tool, and one of the things you have to do is treat it like a sales tool.

Rob  24:51

And what do people need is that emotional connection and touch. The more AI there is, the more that computer generated, the more the automation there is, the more people will want the human touch, because we’re social animals. That’s the way it is, whether you like it or not.

Rob  25:04

I do believe that sales may become a little more efficient with AI and do a lot more stuff with it, but in the end, it’s going to be people to people that’s going to make all the difference, and those are going to be the people that do a really good job of making a lot of money and helping a lot of companies grow quickly and over time. So Joe, I really appreciate being on the on the show. I hope that really helped you, and thank you for being here, by the way, thank you.

Joe  25:24

Yeah, my pleasure, and I absolutely will begin to implement your suggestions, your advice. I appreciate it.

Rob  25:32

Great. I’m glad that that was helpful. All right, until next time, everybody remember Slow Down and Close More. Thanks.=

V/O  25:36

Thank you for listening to The Slow Pitch. Do you have a question about sales, call or text your question at (608) 708-SLOW. That’s (608) 708-7569. Or you can email them to Questions@TheSlowPitch.com. Slow Down and Close More.