How Do You Sell Value Instead of Price?

Rob  00:00

You know, a lot of companies compete on price, but once they realize that price doesn’t matter when you’re not a commodity, that’s when you can start pricing things appropriately. In this episode, I talked to Jessica Renard. She is from NuSource.

Rob  00:13

We talk about transforming her business from a product-based business to one that is not so much focused on discounts and price, but on the value and the services that they provide based on the pains that they’re solving. If you’ve ever struggled to justify your price, this conversation is probably going to help you listen in.

Rob  00:29

All right, welcome everybody to The Slow Pitch podcast, where we are talking about sales again today, and today we have a special guest, Jessica Renard, and she is with NuSource. So tell me a little bit about what new source does, and we’ll get into a little bit of why this applies to sales in a second. So go ahead and tell me what you guys do, so people at a high level understand what you do, because I think it’s kind of interesting.

Jessica  00:53

Yeah, sure. So we are B2B company. We’re positioned as a micro wholesaler that curates inventory for store owners, like resale stores, consignment shops, as well as online resellers that further sell on marketplaces like eBay, Poshmark, live selling like whatnot. And so, we have our demand side, which is our customer base. And then we also have a big sourcing team, where we’re constantly, you know, sourcing new deals and partnerships for better inventory.

Rob  01:19

And it’s kind of a an interesting world in that you you’re kind of helping these companies off load, if you will, some of their excess inventory, and then you’re giving people the opportunity to buy something so that they may not have been able to get, you know, maybe it just wasn’t available, maybe they didn’t have opportunity to get it, or something along those lines, correct?

Jessica  01:38

Yes, so that store owners don’t have to waste their time sourcing they can, you know, focus on making money, rather than having to go out there and curate inventory and do this themselves. A lot of our customers are owner operated store owners that, you know, who just don’t have the time to do it the right way.

Rob  01:54

Well, that’s, you know, that’s smart, because when you’re running a business, you there’s only so much time in the day, and so offloading something that’s definitely going to help. So, there’s a value for them to do that. Talk to me a little bit about some of the challenges that you’re running into in terms of their related to sales and that you’re that’s kind of why you’re here, why we’re

Jessica  02:10

talking so I would say we’re still in startup mode. We I started the business in 2019 and my team, especially my sales team, are all former customers, so I don’t have traditional and myself as well, like, don’t have that traditional corporate background, but everything has been like, very grassroots gorilla is kind of like the culture from day one.

Jessica  02:30

And so we’re very successful at customer retention, but new customer acquisition is kind of where we need help. And you know, 80% of our revenue is from 20% of our customers, and that’s going to be a problem at some point.

Rob  02:43

But you, once you get a client, I think you told me that they stay, right? Is that? Yeah, so the fact that they stay, it’s not a matter. So I’ve worked with people before where they have an issue on the other end, where it’s retention, like keeping the clients, once they get them, you don’t really have that issue, which is a good thing, because retaining clients is usually the most profitable way to increase sales, like if you can continue to work with them.

Rob  03:06

Every new customer is just increasing sales without really trying. So that’s kind of a cool part. So I’m glad to hear that. And you’re talk to me about your new customer acquisition costs. I mean, are they high? What? What does that look like, in terms of how difficult is it to get a new customer and so forth.

Jessica  03:23

Also lends to, like, why I’m here is I don’t know that information. Like, I don’t formalize marketing team. We don’t really have a marketing spend. So to, like, understand what that CAC is. I don’t, I can’t.

Rob  03:33

Ok, that’s totally fine. And I, because I had a wrote, I’ve written a note down to May. Oh, make sure. Make sure I asked that question because, like, I couldn’t remember if there was a number associated with it or not. So no no worries on that. But that’s an easy one to figure out once you get to that point.

Rob  03:48

And so it’s getting those new customers and getting new clients acquisition. So those are the mom-and-pop stores, the retailers, the different companies that want to offload or get rid of some of your access input, the ones they’re buying from us, the ones that are buying from you. So you’re trying to acquire new customers or clients that would the mom and pops that would buy from you to resell it is what you’re doing.

Jessica  04:10

Yeah, I don’t currently have a problem sourcing supply, which has been one of the great parts of the business from day one, is that the supply has always been there, and especially with what’s going on in like the industry, with, you know, tariffs and over production, over consumption, there is no shortage of supply.

Rob  04:25

Interesting, yeah, that makes sense, okay? And so you have, and you have a sales team already, correct, or a few people that are doing some sales stuff.

Jessica  04:30

Yes, I have associates and one sales director.

Rob  04:35

Okay, and this and the sales team, what’s their process? What are they like? How do they, what do they do to acquire new?

Jessica  04:42

So, we use HubSpot as like our contact management tool. We like we’ve played around with media buys, so sometimes we have incoming leads that go into HubSpot and get assigned.

Jessica  04:52

But otherwise it is really a lot of social media research, you know, like searching who are the research. Dollars and just kind of cold reaching out to them, where we’ve also tested the kind of a referral program with our current customers, you know, because the retention is so great, it’s been easy to ask for referrals, but it hasn’t necessarily been easy to get referrals.

Rob  05:13

Oh, interesting. What have they told you? Maybe it’s indirectly they have. They told you why they don’t refer.

Jessica  05:20

esssNo, and I’ll make an assumption is that, because they’re owner operated, and they’re often kind of like an on an island by themselves. In the industry, like the thrift store industry, isn’t necessarily franchised or streamlined, perhaps they just don’t have the network. I would assume that they did, but, you know, they’re willing to, like, try for us, but we haven’t received that many

Rob  05:41

Interesting Okay, so they… but, yeah, so they’ll try, but it’s not top of mind, right? So that’s not one of those. What do you do to incent them any? Is there any incentive for them?

Jessica  05:50

Yeah, we offer $500 and free shipping, like $500 off and free shipping off of their next order once a referral has purchased.

Rob  05:58

So there’s so there’s monetary assistance if they do that, right, and it’s for each one, or is it just one time?

Jessica  06:04

Right now, it’s for one time.

Rob  06:06

Ok, is there a reason there’s only one time?

Jessica  06:09

No, okay, that’s something to think about.

Rob  06:12

Yeah, that’s fine. Because I think you know, if you have multiple people that are referring, and they refer a new company every time, or new you know that, and not somebody else, that would be interested in that, maybe that would be helpful, because that’s a quick, easy expansion. When you Where’d you come up with $500

Jessica  06:29

Our average order value from a first-time store owner is like $3,600 so I was willing, you know, kind of give away 12% of the first time that that customer orders. But it’s not like in perpetuity,

Rob  06:41

Yeah, that totally makes sense. Yeah, I wouldn’t do that in perpetuity, but, but if you’ve got one who’s given you a referral and then they give you another referral and then another referral…

Jessica  06:50

It’s on each one, sorry, each one.

Rob  06:52

Okay, so that’s good, because then at least they feel like they can do that, and that allows you to grow, and it’s really cost free for you, right? You don’t have to go acquire somebody assist, you know, go through the sales process. They already kind of know it’s a good deal.

Rob  07:05

So, all right, so the salespeople talk me through their processes and their steps in terms of, like, how do they categorize, how do they work through, like, you get a new lead. What’s the process? If somebody was there, let’s say I’m working for you. I’m doing sales, and I get a new lead, what is, what are my steps?

Jessica  07:23

They are trying to get a phone call or a Google meet with the customer, learning as much as we can so that we can categorize them properly, like in HubSpot, so we understand, like which vertical they run under, and then getting an understanding of what their biggest inventory needs are, and then kind of back filling that way.

Jessica  07:42

But it is, it is, I would say, the sales team day, they spend a lot of time calling current customers, getting them to repurchase on a new deal that we’ve brought in. Like, there’s not a lot of new leads that are flowing in.

Rob  07:55

Ok, that’s So walk me through, if they’re working consistently, working through your current clients. Let me, let me back up by saying this, do you like doing cold calls?

Jessica  08:08

Me? No.

Rob  08:11

Okay, I don’t think anybody does. So if I’m looking at this as a salesperson, I have the option to call somebody I already know is going to buy versus I don’t know is I’m going to make that other call, right? So, so, so the question of being, how do you balance their day to be focused on new leads versus the other? I’m assuming you have an incentive program that’s based on…

Jessica  08:32

I have a new customer. Kick back, it’s like $150 per new customer. We’re getting maybe 30 a month, okay? Like about 100 a quarter is like, what it what it’s running this year, which I think is very, I would imagine that’s very low.

Rob  08:46

I mean, it could be, I mean, when you think about cold calling, if it’s true, cold calling, probably not too bad, because it that’s, you know, not an easy conversion, right? How do you how do they work through the Well, before we go to that, have you ever tested having one individual salesperson just do cold calling? That’s really…

Jessica  09:07

No, and we’re talking about that right right now because we just landed a very large deal with a brand that we’re under NDA with, but the inventory is around 80,000 units a month that I have to prepay for. So I so that’s imperative for this specific deal to be successful.

Rob  09:24

I would imagine, yeah, yeah. I would imagine, because now you’ve got, you’ve got inventory, and you’ve got to get right. So that makes sense. Makes sense. So having one person just doing that would be helpful. And I’m assuming they have a list that they’re working on. How do you get that

Jessica  09:38

list? It’s, I don’t I mean, so there are some franchises. So let’s say, like a Plato’s closet. I know all we have the list of the 700 stores, so we work off that list, and then there’s another franchise. So we try to segment it by franchise, if, if there’s just not that many, and then the rest is Google.

Jessica  09:55

We’ve purchased lists in the past, but they’re so diluted. I mean, it’s. Horrible way to get leads. Yeah? And then, just like when we mess around with media buys, just focusing on those incoming leads…

Rob  10:07

If you’re going to have somebody do just cold calls, obviously they have income issues, right? So you’re gonna have to incent plus income. So how do you balance that?

Jessica  10:17

Yeah, so I’ve been testing for the last two years, we have a cohort of salespeople that are 1099 only with a heavy commission structure, and then I have salaried people w2 with a much lower commission structure. And I’m trying to figure out what is the best path.

Jessica  10:33

It’s hard to get the 1099 people to like attend all the meetings and have the right buy in, because there’s no salary attached to it. So I think for me, selfishly, like I’d like to own their time more than I do, but I do. I think if I found the right 1099, group, like a real hunter, the pay structure is great. It’s just you’ve got to apply yourself.

Rob  10:54

How often you do the meetings?

Jessica  10:56

We’re very we’re meeting heavy, maybe 4, 5, 6, a week.

Rob  11:00

For those independents, you want them to be there that many times, at least three, at least three. And if they showed up to is that okay or not?

Jessica  11:08

Not as good, it’s fine, but they mean they’ll just miss out. We’re opportunity buyers, so like, a new deal comes in, it needs to get talked about, like it gets put into HubSpot, but the business is so product focused that there’s a lot of conversation and showing of images and videos and you know all that.

Rob  11:27

Okay, so those meetings are more like, here’s the products that we have now and what we’re working on okay, all right, that makes sense.

Jessica  11:33

So having them there becomes important, because they got to know what you have for them, right? Like for their success.

Rob  11:35

Do you record those meetings ever?

Jessica  11:35

We do. Yeah, everything’s recording. We use Firefly so they could see some of it if you really wanted

Rob  11:44

That’s helpful. Because I was going to ask if you’re doing, like, one, one a week, or whatever you could almost incentive would just, like, show up as an extra 50 bucks every time, especially if they’re good, right? Then it’s worth their money if they’re if they’re good, good people.

Jessica  11:59

I found that, like, the people that agree to take a 1099 job, I want those people. It’s like, right? If that person has the head that, like, I’m going to come into a no salary High Commission, and I understand that I’m going to, I have to work for it, but the payout on the other side is large.

Jessica  12:15

That’s definitely to me. Says, like, okay, I want this person. And then it’s just making sure that, like, I utilize them properly and give them the right tools once they’re on board.

Rob  12:22

Yeah, that’s good because, yeah, because they have their own incentive. They know, they know that they can do it, yeah? And then there’s no skin in the game and no cost for you, almost, right? So they, they do the work. They get paid once they finish the job. So, you have some that are 1099 and some that are in house,

Jessica  12:38

Yeah. And what’s happened over the years is that, like my best 1010, 99 people, I have hired, within six months, one person that started as a 1099 salesperson is now running my customer success department like full time with a bonus plan. And that’s happened to probably four or five people. So that’s how…

Rob  12:55

I was going to one of the questions I was going to ask you, how do you find really good salespeople? So, you’re testing.

Jessica  13:00

For the most part, it’s been my customers have become my best salespeople.

Rob  13:05

So they have their own things to worry about. Then you hire them directly.

Speaker 1  13:09

Yeah, and this is more for the online resellers, not people that have storefronts, but yeah, online resellers. And then I did just do my first hire of someone from a completely different industry. She’s like, a big time account manager for HubSpot, actually, and she’s doing great.

Rob  13:26

That’s crazy. Okay, cool. That’s cool. All right. Have you written them down? Or have you identified what skills are really important to you in that role to make sure that when you find them, you see them right away?

Jessica  13:37

I don’t have it written down, but I guess, like, what I look for is product knowledge and being able to, like, work, a room, a conversation, having that extroverted, you know, being able to turn on the extroverted thing, even if you’re not extroverted and strong. I mean, it’s all follow up, right? So some got, like, strong follow up game is what I’ve identified so far. I’m sure there’s more.

Rob  14:00

So there’s a process to their work and how they work. And so I have found it’s weird. I have found that, more than not, I’m surprised by introvert extrovert, how important that is, because I find that extroverts are important in some respects and introverts are better in other respects.

Rob  14:18

So how do you balance those two? Because when you have somebody that’s really extroverted, they do all the talking, and they don’t listen to what the needs are of the client. So how do you balance that? Or, how do you make sure that they or is it just like a very close you know, they’re both

Jessica  14:31

So we have heavily invested in coaching for the team. My I have a small team where 18 people were all women, and, you know, most, most of the team is under the age of 45 so we’ve done a lot of coaching. We’ve gone through a lot of tests. I would say, once a quarter, we get together and just kind of learn how each other works.

Jessica  14:50

I think the introvert extrovert thing like introverts recharge by unplugging, like getting away from people, and extroverts recharge by continuing. Doing to talk to people. So I think as long as an introvert can, I think they’re typically like, leaning into being a type A person.

Jessica  15:06

They can turn it on, they understand, like the job, and then they can turn it off. So in some sense, sales, it’s great for an introvert, because it’s, it’s like an off on conversation, and then a lot of the follow up is done, like behind the scenes right now that I’m thinking about, I think the majority of of my sales team, they are probably introverts, and I’m the heavy extrovert.

Rob  15:28

Interesting. Yeah, it is interesting. I say that because I, myself, am an introvert, and some of the introverts that I’ve come around, they tend to be good at asking questions, figuring it out, and then they just sit there and listen, and then they realize that, okay, this customer has this problem, and so they ask more questions about that.

Rob  15:48

And everybody always thinks that an extrovert is a great salesperson, but they’re the ones that everybody see, but they don’t necessarily. People can see them coming, right? So anytime you go to a this a bad example, because it’s not what an extrovert is.

Rob  16:04

But you go to a car dealership, it feels like they’re all extroverts, right, but the really good salespeople there are typically the ones that are a little bit surprising and they’re not quite as in your face. So there’s nothing wrong with I mean, listen, you can be a very good salesperson as an extrovert, and you can be a very good salesperson as an introvert.

Rob  16:20

I just find it’s interesting that people tend to think that extroverts are way better when it really depends on their skills in other areas, I one of the other questions I wanted to ask is, is there a process that they have, in other words, when they’re at a certain stage in the sales process that they are following?

Rob  16:37

Do you have steps or processes that are written down, or there are things that you know that they’re when they’re in this stage, they’re doing these things, no, okay, okay, that’s okay.

Jessica  16:47

It’s a very embarrassing answer, but it’s no…

Rob  16:50

It’s fine.

Jessica  16:51

We’re still everything’s like fire ants. And I think, like, as I’m talking these things out, what I’m realizing is that I think we’re so product focused, like we believe that the product sells itself, right?

Jessica  17:02

And I think that might be where we’re missing, like, everything is just all about the product and how we’re driving the product to the customer and and that, like, price elasticity, not a strong focus on the sales process, but product like, we have down, and maybe that’s where the shift needs to be.

Rob  17:19

Well, there’s a couple reasons I’m asking. One is that process becomes really important the more you grow. So, as you scale, you’re going to have more salespeople, you’re going to have more different things you have to deal with. The scale becomes the issue, and so you have to have that process down and nailed right.

Rob  17:32

So, the culture has to be there a certain way about how you approach things. So in the very beginning, that initial phone call, there should be a conversation in their head. And while they’re talking about what kind of person I am dealing with on the other side of the line, so are they?

Rob  17:48

And I always use disc, and if you’ve heard any, somebody Yeah, so all the other thing you know, and other episodes of the of the podcast here we talk about DISC. And so are they high D? Are they high I, S or C?

Rob  17:59

That’s how you’re going to now talk to that person, and there’s a purposeful conversation that is driven by the other person’s personality, not by their own. So if I’m the salesperson, my DISC is, let’s say, an I. My tendency is going to be talk, talk, talk, talk, all the fun stuff, but it’s not going to be getting to the meat of the issue.

Rob  18:22

When you’re talking to a person that’s a C on the other end, they’re going to be like, what, I don’t even want to talk to talk to you anymore, because this is has nothing to do with what I’m looking for, right?

Jessica  18:25

Yeah, how can someone learn how to read that?

Rob  18:30

So there’s a lot of indicators. I think that’s a good question, because the best way to put it is, is, if you look at the if you look at disk as a square right? You’ll have, on one side, you’ll have a D and a C, and on the other side, you have an i and an S. The D and the C are task people.

Rob  18:49

The i and the s people are more people, people, if you will. When you listen to somebody talk and they’re high D personality, they’re going to talk about, what’s the next steps? How are we going to do this? What do you mean? Why can’t we do this by then?

Rob  19:08

You know that kind of thing. A C is going to want data and statistics and information, like, what’s my cost per What’s this, right? But an I is going to be like, well, you know, what kind of colors do you have? What? You know, what fashion? What’s the trend bubble, right? And then the S is going to be about their team.

Rob  19:14

So they’re going to be about the rest of the making the decision with their team. I need to check with my vice president of this. I need to check my design person, whatever, right? So, they now are not making it. They won’t make the decision by themselves, that they’ll make it with their team, and I typically does that too. They want to get input from everybody, so you listen for clues.

Rob  19:33

That’s one of the aspects of so that should be early in the sales process, because now everything falls off from that yeah, and everything and that should be in their CRM system entry, so that even after they’ve become a customer, they now are spoken to in that language, if you will. So every time you re every time that salesperson has to go back to that, that customer to resell again.

Rob  19:59

They’re going to use that same and they all should understand that. Every single salesperson should understand that, right. So, they’re all on the same page. Everybody, it’s like that, that customer thinks you guys are awesome. Every time I talk to you guys, you give me all the information I need, even though it’s just no, no, we’re talking your language. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Rob  20:18

So the other, the other component of that is, are they visual? Are they auditory? Are they kinesthetic? And I know that’s another weird thing, but if they’re visual, they need to see things. They need to pictures. Yeah, they’re the ones asking for pictures. They’re the ones that are even saying, that’s not how I see it, or what does that look like?

Rob  20:35

Or they’ll say things that are visually word, verbiage that is word, that is visual, whereas an auditory person might say, you know, I don’t hear, you know, I don’t hear you say that you have this or I don’t, you know. And then you have a kinesthetic that’s going to say, you know, I was listening to somebody the other day, and they were saying something along the lines of, of, you know, that doesn’t feel right, or I can’t quite get a handle on that.

Rob  20:55

They’re saying thing.

Jessica  20:56

Gut and intuition kind of thing?

Rob  20:57

Yes, that’s exactly right. So they’re, they’re the feeling, not emotional, feeling the grasp, being the tactile. And so they may even be the ones that say, can you send me a sample? I want to feel it right, basically what they’re saying. And maybe you don’t get that but, but that’s early on in the process.

Rob  21:14

That’s one of those steps that should be taken care of by those salespeople, is entering all that information in and learning how to speak to that person in that way. That’s the first step. And then the second part of that step is just really deciding on what the process is going to be like for them as a client.

Rob  21:28

So initially, when I try to talk to somebody brand new, my goal is to say, Listen, I think my understanding of how this is going to work is I’m going to kind of talk you through or we’re going to work through these conversations. But at the end of these conversations, if you’re going to tell me, I don’t want to do that, you’re thinking,

Rob  21:40

I don’t want to do that. Or I don’t want to do that, or I don’t want to buy that’s okay. Tell me it’s okay. Or they’re going to, if you will, feel like you’ve this is we’re headed in the right, right direction, and we just need something else, or more information.

Rob  21:50

Tell me, I don’t want to assume that I’m giving you all the information, but there’s certain things that they need to give them to know that you’re on the same page, and then that’s just the whole initial conversations.

Rob  22:00

And then they should be getting into the next thing, which is learning about what their problems are. So how much do you guys talk about the customer or the client’s pain? How do you get into that? Yeah, how do you do that?

Jessica  22:11

Um, so when we buy, let’s say, deal, anthropology or free people, we go into the conversation with the com, like, the comparative data of what we’re finding on the marketplaces, and say something like, Hey, you can buy this for $8 we’re finding that customers are selling it for 16 if you display it this way, perhaps you can get an extra dollar.

Jessica  22:33

And if, for some reason, that like misses, then they’ll definitely pivot and talk about like, okay, so if that’s not part of like, your inventory needs, like, tell us what it is that you’re looking for, and then we can make it happen. Typically, we can source what they need, or we just have to present it differently, like, we already have it, but we just have to present it differently.

Jessica  22:52

So you start with telling them what you kind of want to like…telling them what we have, like what deals, which is too transactional.

Jessica  22:56

I think so yeah. I think we’re trying to find a way to switch to this, like transformational concept where, like, we are integrated into these customers, like business structures, because we are here to empower the customer, but we’re again, so product oriented. It just very transactional.

Rob  23:20

So it’s a difficult shift for an organization to make. Okay, we’re product now, we’re now we’re going to be more people focused. My guess is you’re kind of a bit of a high D personality.

Jessica  23:29

I’m very high…

Rob  23:29

I couldn’t tell. So, so that’s typical, because your task, you’re trying to get. Let’s go to the next one. Next one, the next one. What I’ve found is that companies that shift from being very transactional to being more interpersonal and working toward getting what the other person needs, the price that they can charge dramatically changes improve.

Rob  23:54

So I’m not sure that you have the flexibility in your line of what you’re doing to just say, well, we’re going to charge 20 20% more you don’t probably, but if you get a even if it’s a little bit of a percentage improvement, but the length of time that they’re with you even extends even further.

Rob  24:12

That’s a value too. So I guess the question I would ask is, when you have conversations about pain, my question really is, is, what are the pains that you’re solving for the customer? Or how do they tell you what their problem is?

Jessica  24:25

They tell us what they need like. They tell us what they’re having a hard time finding. Our online resellers are sourcing themselves. They’re driving to thrift stores. They’re searching through racks. They’re sourcing their own inventory. And so that that’s easier to like be transformational, because we can say, what’s the ROI of your time? Like you buy from us, it just shows up at your front door. That way you don’t have to schlep your kids in the car, like that one’s a little bit easier.

Jessica  24:48

And then for our storefront owners, the other like just saying what they’re having a hard time getting their hands on, and they know they’re missing the mark on a category or an upsell or something like that. But our new I we just got acquired in November by a new investor, and he must talk to me 10 times a week about, like, just, how are you going to make that switch?

Jessica  25:08

Like, you’ve built a very transactional, successful business. But in order for this to have scale, and you know, five times 5x what we’re doing, it has to be transformational. And I’m having a hard time finding what the value is that we bring to the table that can be defined as transformational for the client, or for your company, for the client, because it is inventory, like it is a transactional item.

Rob  25:31

Yeah, but every client has a need. So you said one of the things they’re doing is they’re like, I’m looking transactional. Yes, in a sense, I’m looking over. I can’t find this, okay? And let’s say you have it, and if you present it in such a way of let me see if I can find that. Find that. Let me get back to you, and then an hour later, you call back…found it because you already had it, but it makes them feel like you spent an hour working on it.

Rob  25:57

That becomes a little bit of a shift in their mindset of, wow, these people are good. And they actually found this for me, that amount of time, okay, how much is it they’re willing to pay, probably more than they normally would, because we deliver like we delivered, yeah, yeah.

Rob  26:01

And you’ve created a huge value for them. They’d have to worry about going to find it anymore, and it’s going to improve their sales. So what is the problem that you’re solving for them? Yes, they have invested time, but they want to improve their sales too, right?

Jessica  26:13

Yeah, so if they have the product that will make them profit, help them be profitable. Yeah?

Rob  26:19

So the all the conversations need to be questions about how they’re struggling with I would be asking them, are you? Are you? Let’s say, wait. Let’s say I can find let’s say I can find this. What does that do for your company? What does that do for you guys?

Rob  26:33

Because it puts in their head, they never really think about it that way. There’s like, just what I want. But if you go, well, what does that do to you guys? How does that help? Like, so what? So what? I find it then, then what? And they go, well, I mean, what would they say?

Jessica  26:43

I would imagine I was like thinking that through all you’re saying, I think our customers would say, Well, I know I can flip it quickly. I know the margin is there. I know I can to my Men’s buyer also sell them kids clothing and I like. So that’s where I struggle, because I think the answer to that question for my customer goes back into the transactional zone.

Rob  27:02

But so let’s walk through that. Because you said, say that. So, you said that they would, they look at it in terms of, I can turn this product quickly. I know you asked them quickly. So, do you ask the question next? Well, how? What is your rate of? What is your flip rate? What? Oh, you know what?

Rob  27:19

I don’t remember the terminology for it, but what is that normally, and how fast would this change? With this change your overall number, and by how much? Okay, one thing I do know about retail is that if you have good margins and you’re flipping it fast, you’re making a lot of money quickly, right?

Jessica  27:32

So strong, yeah,

Rob  27:34

yeah. And so the more you can do that for them, the better, and you become extremely valuable to them. Is there a tier in your end of the sounds crazy, but is there a tier in your in your client base, that you can you find it a little easier to find the products that they’re looking for, that you can solve their issues and demonstrate to them that the pain that they’re having, which is I can’t flip stuff fast enough, I can’t find the right product, or I can’t whatever those issues are, that you could make them a an elite member, or some sort of a Do you have that already in place?

Jessica  28:05

We’re building it out right now, a VIP membership program. So we’re taking our top 20 customers and putting them into like a beta test, just like customers that we trust that if we kind of mess up or deliver on something wrong, you know, they’re not going to.

Rob  28:19

What’s a good, good way to do it? It’s a good beta test to do that.

Jessica  28:21

Yeah, so that is in the works, as well as a subscription model on our evergreen inventory that I know I always have, and a store can just order into it, and we’ll test the subscription model. So, like, if, if the store owner can eliminate having that conversation with us, and they just know that they need 1000 units of target clothing every week, every month, like, let’s just make that happen so they can skip that process. Yeah, it’s not finished yet, but.

Rob  28:48

Yeah, but what’s the pain that that’s solving?

Jessica  28:50

I think it’s helping with speed and inventory planning and consistent inventory levels.

Rob  29:00

Okay, and would that also include my competitor down the street will get it two weeks later than what I’m getting it because I’m a VIP member, and right? And so now they have the first shot at getting what they need for sales.

Jessica  29:14

Yeah, like it’s guaranteed it’s going to go to them first. They’re going to have a chance to buy it before tier B, yep. And maybe everyone is a VIP member. I’m not, we’re not slow.

Rob  29:24

I mean, yeah, you guys determine, you guys determine who’s in, right? So, what’s the difference? It could be 90% of the people, but, like, it doesn’t matter, as long as you as long as you deliver what you say you’re going to deliver. And then there’s some people that just don’t want to do that, that’s okay.

Rob  29:35

So, and then the other, I mean, I think one of the questions I wanted to ask you is, what percentage of the people that you approach don’t close? So, is it a lead problem, or is it a sales problem? My gut tells me one thing, but a lead.

Jessica  29:49

I think it’s a lead problem.

Rob  29:50

You think it’s a lead problem So, and that’s because you don’t have enough leads.

Jessica  29:54

I don’t know where to get I don’t know how to build that side. And I think what like i. My gut, because this is all I know, is to hire hunters and like, my team is considered farmers, right? And that’s what they’re really good at.

Jessica  30:07

But I need to build out this hunting team, and I need to hire a sales director that can build it, because it won’t be me. I don’t have that skill set, so I think I just don’t currently have that expertise on the team.

Rob  30:21

That makes sense. Okay? That’s, yeah, that’s perfect. So I Yeah, because I think finding the leads is not always easy, but once you get somebody that understands how to do that, then then it makes a lot more sense. Plus, I think it just takes time.

Rob  30:38

I mean, if you have people working on doing the farming, which is like, repeat, repeat customer, right, they’re not going to spend the time on hunting it out, right? They’re just not going to do it. So you have to have some people specifically assigned to doing that task, or it’s not going to happen, right, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Training process for salespeople you’ve developed over time.

Rob  30:51

It sounds like, I mean, you find good people, but then you develop them as you go, right? Yes, that’s kind of your process. Do you have a defined process so that as you scale

Jessica  30:59

It’s like heavy HubSpot training. And then, you know, we still live in Google Sheets, which is the problem, but just helping them learn all the lingo and all the inventory, where to find proper inventory levels that they can, you know, when their customer says, I need x, y, z, how can they go verify that we have that?

Jessica  31:18

So it’s more like tactical training. They are. They’re already coming to the table with the expertise. So it’s not really knowledge training. It’s more just like how to use the systems.

Rob  31:28

If you had the ability to train somebody from the ground up, though, would that be helpful or not helpful?

Jessica  31:34

I don’t know if it’s necessary, because we’re bringing in such strong and again, this might be the problem, bringing in really strong product experts, not necessarily die hard sales people, like one time, I took a shift outside of what I normally do, to challenge myself, and I hired a door knocker that was in sold commercial water filtration systems.

Jessica  31:55

He was amazing, but it just wasn’t the right time, like I wasn’t built out enough to be able to have that, like, personality on the team, and there was a lot of like, running in the gray that we’re also not ready for. Like, I don’t know how to build guardrails around someone that is, like, an insane sales killer. And that’s what this person was.

Rob  32:16

I mean, do you need to do it? Do you need guardrails for a good salesperson? Yes, you need to be able to have, okay, here’s your limitations, right? I need to make this much margin period, not You’re not going to sell it for free. Like, that’s not going to work, right?

Rob  32:28

But, I mean, you can set up the basics. But I have got to tell you, my experience has been really good. Sales people difficult to find, but when you find them, they’re worth their weight in gold, and you can really help them, you know, free them to do what they need to do and make a lot of money, and they’ll make you a lot of money too.

Rob  32:44

So I think you’re right in look, you know, finding somebody that’s outside of the industry, but you also have to know how they how well they do at doing sales so that they can. Because my always question is, is, you know, you got a really great salesperson. They approach you like, why are you changing?

Jessica  32:59

Yeah.

Rob  32:59

From what you’re doing to this, because that sounds like there’s an issue there somewhere. So true. Yeah, I’ve asked you a bunch of questions. We kind of talked a bunch of different things. What any questions that you have, or wish that we would have talked about or at it, you know,

Jessica  33:12

I guess, like, I just feel that I go to work every day and I know what I know, and I crave just maybe, like, mentorship or understanding how the corporate world functions. So I can take bits and pieces of that and, like, apply it into what we do. So maybe be like, is there a place where you would suggest that I start just understanding what corporate processes are doing?

Rob  33:36

So one of the questions that I would ask would be, do you have a SCORE office nearby? That’s one of the cheap, easy ways to do it. These are these are people that have been in corporate world at all levels, who are good at consulting or coaching, and a lot of times they’re free or inexpensive. Those are good people to know.

Rob  33:53

And they also collect data, so they have a lot of good inside information about what’s going on in the industry, what the trends are in there, that kind of stuff. And you can ask for somebody that’s focused on that. So that’s focused on that. So that’s one area to do it to. I’m assuming you have a mentor. No?

Jessica  34:11

Yes, I have an executive leadership coach, and then, like a business mentor, and my new investor definitely have taken on a very strong mentorship role to me,

Rob  34:15

Which is good. Okay, that’s good, because when that means they have, especially if it’s an investor, they have a vested interest. Number one. Number two, they know you can do it. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be doing that right as an as an investor, they would take actions that are like trying to go around you, and they’re actually trying to develop and work with you. So that’s good, that’s a very good thing.

Rob  34:33

And I think the mentor thing, it’s, it’s funny, because sometimes people think that you have to hire a mentor. And you know, my experience has also been that there’s people that are in similar industries, but, or let’s call it sister or brother industries that you guys talk about, what the trends are, what’s going on, what are you seeing?

Rob  34:49

What are your problems? And just, you know, talk through things with each other and bounce ideas off. I’m assuming you have that as well.

Jessica  34:54

Yeah, yeah. Ban that a little bit. But those are good ideas for sure.

Rob  34:59

Yeah, I find that that is a little bit freeing. So good example, I, you know, my business, I had a complimentary company that I used to work with, and then they ended up selling their business. And I was like, I did not do a good job of finding other people that also could be that type of person.

Rob  35:15

So when sales got slow, they were slow, and they would be like, yeah, it’s slow, right now. Like, okay, it’s not just me, right? So pulse check, yeah, yeah, exactly. Sometimes that’s all you need. It’s like, okay, I’m not crazy. This is, this is not me, though, and this, it’s what’s going on right now.

Rob  35:30

And that could be both very good business or very poor business. It doesn’t matter. It’s knowing that and having that person to bounce it off from. So I would always recommend expanding that as much as you can within reason. I mean, you don’t want to go crazy, but if you got a few if you got a few people, that’s good.

Rob  35:44

So what other what other questions? Because that’s a great that’s a really good thing that I don’t think enough people talk about is having people that just give them inside information from a business, running a business standpoint,

Jessica  35:55

I’m a single mom, and I I’ve built a village of, like, mom friends that can help me, but I think also, like applying that to the workplace, to like professional village, is importantly, powerful. Next question would be, what’s your favorite business book that you would recommend?

Rob  36:13

So yeah, yeah. So just in this, this whole conversation we’ve been having, the one thing that kept coming to my mind, it was blue ocean strategy, because you are in a very commoditized business, but blue ocean says it doesn’t have to be that way. You find your own blue ocean.

Rob  36:29

Find your differentiating point, and that’s what you’re going to work with and get people to attach to your brand. And so that comes with attaching the pains and the issues that the people are having who are buying from you, shifting them from the normal, listen, I just need this much, and I need at this price.

Rob  36:47

Because anybody that comes to you with just a price, and that’s a transactional person, but if you can let them understand, you can just, you know, hey, I know you want another this price. I know you want, you know they’re going to fight you on price.

Rob  36:53

I would rather have that conversation earlier, where you’re talking about what their problems are, and if it’s time like they don’t attach the time that they spend searching everywhere to their price, right? They just right? Yeah. So ask them the question and make them work through it.

Rob  37:08

You spend how many hours a week searching for that product? And they go, you know? Well, it’s once a month, okay, once a month. And how many hours? Well, it’s about three hours a month, okay? And then I don’t know how many it is, right, so, but so three hours, that’s 36 How much do you get paid?

Rob  37:22

Again, like, that’s a lot. 36 hours a year just on that particular segment of your need. The rest, the rest, I’m sure you’re doing this with other stuff. Do you need this? Do you need this? Like others, that’s a valuable now, all of a sudden, it’s not about price.

Rob  37:35

It’s about I wait. I can, instead of spending 36 hours a year or a month, whatever it is searching, I can just call you guys, and you guys are going to take care of that for me, and I can now spend more time running my business, or if it’s an online thing, I don’t have to do anything like that’s a good deal, right?

Rob  37:52

So make it more transactional. But if you read that book, you start to realize there’s other ways of approaching that, and it goes to the same type of thing, which is, it’s about the people, it’s about how you connect, and all that kind of stuff. Kind of stuff too.

Jessica  38:03

Commodity is also a word I hear my new investor say weekly. It’s like, we are not commoditized, like we cannot. No, you cannot. Jess, you cannot let us get commoditized. And I’m like, okay, cool. Do you have a roadmap? Because I’m trying to figure that out.

Rob  38:17

Yeah, there’s no, yeah, that’s a good question. There’s no real roadmap to that. It’s an attitude adjustment or shift, and it’s, it starts with you, obviously, but the team has to understand, is not a commodity. I mean it, it may sound like and people think it is, but listen, that particular shirt, outfit thing, whatever it is that is, that’s the only one that’s there.

Rob  38:36

It’s a it’s an original, if you will, right? There’s no mother like, usually, these are things that are being pushed out, right? So there, there’s not many left, right? And people still want it. So it’s not a commodity. It’s a shift in a mindset, and especially when you attach pains to it, which are things that people have a problem with.

Rob  38:54

And I don’t think, I don’t think we’ve dug enough into the pain, in my honest opinion, I don’t think we dug enough into the pain of what the what your customers and clients need. I think you need to think a little bit about, what is it that really keeps them up at night.

Rob  39:05

And if you have to ask them that question, do it like, what if we didn’t exist? What would happen? Because maybe they’d say we don’t care. But I doubt it, right? Yeah, so I think there’s more pains that could be listed out, and each one is going to be different.

Rob  39:19

And every, honestly, that every sale needs to be approached with, I don’t know what their pain is. Let’s find out. Okay, I like, yeah, yeah. And that’s how you become not a commodity every time. Okay, all right.

Jessica  39:29

Noted.

Rob  39:30

Cool, Jessica, I really appreciate you being on the show. I really do because I think this can help a lot of other people who run their business and need to figure out how to do that. So, I really appreciate you being on,

Jessica  39:39

Yeah, thank you. I’m going to send this recording to my team too.

Rob  39:44

Yeah, sounds good. If you ever needed to reach out, I’m happy to help you too, so I appreciate your time today and until next time, everybody remember slow down and close more.

V/O  39:53

Thank you for listening to The Slow Pitch. Do you have a question about sales call or. Text your question at (608) 708-SLOW. That’s (608) 708-7569. Or you can email them to Questions@TheSlowPitch.com

V/O  40:14

Slow Down and Close More.