Live Sales Coaching Session

Rob  00:00

All right, welcome back, everybody to the slow pitch, and today we have a special guest. He is Vince Quinn and I’m gonna let him tell you a little bit about what he does, but we’re going to talk about some of the challenges that it that a lot of people run into when you’re growing and you’re changing and shifting and trying to go after a little bit different prospect and how you can approach some of that.

Rob  00:28

So what I want to do is kind of turn it over to Vince for a quick second here, and Vince give us a little bit of insight as to what you do and how you do it and all that good stuff.

Vince  00:37

Yeah. So I’m a podcast strategy company, and what that means is, we help a lot of businesses, coaches, consultants, real estate agents, like people who are the business. In a lot of cases, we help them use podcasting as a means to increase their awareness, build relationships and drive sales, and so that can include production.

Vince  00:55

But, you know, because a lot of people need that, and we’re happy to do it, but that’s not our main thing. The main thing is, why are you doing this? What are the topics for the show? How do you interview people in the right way?

Vince  01:06

How often should you have interviews? Who should you invite on for interviews? Like, all sorts of the nuancey things that can really help the business get the value of not just the work but the time and the expense.

Vince  01:18

Like, yeah, don’t do the show to get a million downloads and try to be Joe Rogan and get sponsors like, make the show to sell. So that’s what we’re all about. That’s what I do.

Rob  01:27

That’s cool. And I know that that’s a growing industry, or group of people that are like, starting to understand podcasts will drive you new business, and so it’ll release, get you prospects, right? It doesn’t necessarily mean that they they turn over.

Rob  01:40

So, so you, you are the kind of people that just basically help people put that together, come up with the idea. Maybe they have the idea of what they want to talk about, but I’m sure you’ve probably seen it where people come up with an idea, and you’re like, why would anybody want to listen to that? Have you? Have you run into some of that before? As you like to see you laughing,

Vince  01:58

Yeah. No, never. Everybody has great ideas all the time. Rob, nobody’s ever missed no, it’s a home run every time. Yeah. I mean, yeah, let’s, let’s have another show where everybody just tells their backstory for an hour and a half with no drive or purpose behind it. What could go wrong?

Vince  02:14

So, yeah, I’ve seen a lot of bad ideas out there, and that’s, that is a lot of it. I mean, it’s, it’s getting people because they’re building it on this expectation of, like, I’m going to be famous and get the download. So their whole approach is, I’m going to be broad and general.

Vince  02:29

And my whole thing is, no, you should do literally the complete opposite, and you should be so incredibly specific and exclusive and like, that’s the way to go. So yeah, I have to completely turn people around on these concepts, because it can, it can get really wild. Get really wild.

Rob  02:43

Sometimes I can only imagine, and I’d be just from seeing, from my perspective, where I see people do things, because I do a variety of different things. You know, obviously I run a video production company, but I also do a lot of sales things, training and those types of things.

Rob  02:57

So there’s some things that I come up with that I hear and I go, I don’t understand where you’re coming from on this or why you would approach that that way. You know that kind of thing. But at the same time, people often think about things from their own perspective, right?

Rob  03:09

So what they think is important, and in reality, it’s not always about that. And so obviously, on this podcast, we talk about sales stuff. And honestly, it’s the same, I run the same problem with sales people. It’s they don’t think about what does the other person need?

Rob  03:22

Not, this is a sale for me, and I’m going to make a commission off this, right? So, you know, that’s the frustrating I see that where I’m like, Well, you know, if you just looked at it from their perspective, I would imagine that your sale is probably not their most important thing today, so they probably didn’t think about calling you back.

Rob  03:37

You know that maybe that, maybe that’s the reason, right? So, I mean, these are the things that I mean, but like, we can all, we can all say these things about people in our industry, the people that we sell to that kind of thing, but, but I also, there’s a, there’s a piece of this that is kind of important, that kind of reflects into what you wanted to talk about a little bit, which is kind of like, you’re, you’re changing and shifting.

Rob  03:58

So kind of talk through some of the shifts and changes that you’re you’re doing right now, what you’re working on?

Vince  04:02

Yeah, so it’s, it’s funny, because the business has been going for five years, and just from the start of the business, of when I got involved in the podcasting full time, versus where we are now, that shifted entirely.

Vince  04:12

I mean, at the front of it, I was a studio focused business in a physical space, and we were dealing with entertainment shows locally. So we’re trying to build up these entertainment shows that have no business behind them, they don’t have a big audience.

Vince  04:25

They’re starting from scratch, and it was obviously just a terrible business. I mean, none of these shows stuck around, and we’re doing all this work to build them up, and you have no retention, and it’s such a narrow area of people you can work with, and just everything was bad.

Vince  04:39

So over time we we completely flipped. And now, like I said earlier, like we work with businesses, it’s mostly remote. We do have some studio spaces, but all those are partnered with co working spaces, which is great.

Vince  04:51

So now it’s, it’s an amenity for them, and it’s an add on for the the members of those clubs. So that’s great. But generally, yeah, it’s from. With businesses and all of that. So now it’s been my main client has been like a coach, a consultant, I would bet, not knowing their books, but I would bet a lot of these people are making less than $10,000 a month, maybe even half that, in some cases.

Vince  05:15

So to have, they like the idea of podcasting because it feels lightweight and attainable, and they know there’s a lot of value to have in it, but every penny does matter, and there can be some level of really grinding it out to get these people to convert, and beyond that, like just to do the strategy and the production is a cost.

Vince  05:35

Like, I have to help them shape all of these things and understand these conversations and guide them a lot in addition to the production. So that’s that’s going to be an expense.

Vince  05:43

But then to go beyond that and say, Okay, well, let’s make sure you’re promoting posts on LinkedIn, or let’s get somebody else that can run a great newsletter for you, or something we’ll probably talk about later with like sales systems, like maybe you’re not as efficient as you could be.

Vince  05:57

They don’t necessarily have the budget to make those kinds of investments. So what I’m looking for is a higher quality, like a higher income kind of market, and that can be coaches that just have a better income, or it could be more in the B to B space, and just getting into some things directly.

Vince  06:16

Where it’s like a mid sized business that has a marketing department and they still have somebody that can be the face and anchor the show, and I can help with that, but they’ve, they’ve got the muscle to do all of that promotion, but, yeah, I just don’t know those people. Rob, I don’t know them. I don’t know where to begin.

Rob  06:32

So you so you don’t have any of those clients now, you know that they’re out there, or you think they’re out there?

Vince  06:38

Oh, I mean, I’ve seen a lot of other production companies that are out there that are doing that kind of work, and their price point is significantly higher as a result.

Vince  06:45

So yeah, I mean, I’ve seen people for the conversations I’ve had with people who have talked to those kinds of businesses, some of my competition are like, yeah, you’re really affordable. But that’s because a lot of the time my pricing has been for the smaller clients. So like that. I’m sure you know what I mean. So yeah, that’s, that’s how it’s been.

Rob  07:00

So how do you have you asked them, you know, where did you find that client, or how did you get a hold of that client?

Vince  07:04

So, no, I know for because for the those other, those other production companies. So, yeah, I don’t know them. Is the unfortunate thing, like I’ve done. So I see it, okay, search, yeah.

Vince  07:15

So I’ve just looked around, because I’ve always had to. I’ve come from place of complete ignorance, where you know, I was doing the I left radio of 10 years. Then I’m in the studio business.

Vince  07:24

So like, I’ve had to slowly pick my head up and just learn the landscape, which has been part of the big issue. I don’t know who the players are, so I’ve started to do some research and see that.

Vince  07:33

And just based on what I’ve seen on the surface, yeah, there’s plenty of companies that are built for higher quality, B to B sales. You know, sometimes, like, I don’t know 5000 $10,000 a month to manage all of these shows, and they’ve got all these perks behind it.

Vince  07:46

And so, yeah, I know they’re out there, but I don’t know anything on the back end, how they access people, what kind of channels they’re in, like, nothing.

Rob  07:53

So if you’re trying to acquire them, are there any local companies that you would want to target, or that you are targeting now that you’re that you would like to be able to get in front of them, to be able to offer your service.

Vince  08:04

So, yeah, it’s, it’s one of those things that I don’t have a good answer in this moment, and that’s part of what I’m trying to decipher. Because one level is, like the coaches, right?

Vince  08:11

Like, how do I, how do I find a place where, like, a high level coaches, and how do I go and scout that? Like, that’s, that’s a hard thing, and then from the other side of the different industries to go and target beyond that, like I’ve thought about real estate, because I have some shows that I’ve worked with in that space.

Vince  08:27

I know some people in that and I think they, as an industry, get it. So I’m open to businesses in the real estate, you know, realm, and going after them. But I can’t say I’ve got one in particular that I’m like, this is a textbook client.

Vince  08:41

It’s probably more of a similar vein, where it’s an agent that’s that’s bringing in a good dollar figure and gets the value of being a face.

Rob  08:54

Yeah, and that’s, there’s nothing wrong with that too. I mean, a single individual, as long as that pays them back, right? That’s what they’re happy about. So I think the the other question becomes, if you haven’t been able to kind of clarify what that target audience is, or exactly, and be able to list those traits and those things off.

Rob  09:05

That’s probably a good, very good first step in terms of listing out, what is it that would be required for for them to be able to work with you? So for me, like, for example, I, you know, in one of the businesses that I run, it’s, it’s it’s they, you know, there’s got to be a certain threshold of dollars that they can spend.

Rob  09:21

That’s an easy one to figure out, right? You know, you want this much. Okay, that’s fine, but what does that company look like from a visual standpoint? So for me, I would say I would my a good description that I would use for people is, if they have more than 50 employees, that’s a good sign there’s probably enough of cash flow that they can afford somebody like us.

Rob  09:41

If they have a couple of different locations, that’s another good indicator that I should be able to figure out if they’re going to be somebody worthwhile. If their sales, when I start to do some research and I see that their sales are over a certain dollar amount or millions over a certain dollar amount, in millions a year, that’s probably a level too.

Rob  10:00

Because those types of numbers require overhead, the cost for the labor, the cost for all the different things and whatever they needed to manufacture or do their business, whether it’s service or otherwise, they then have a threshold of sales or revenue that I know is typically high enough that could afford this type of thing, right? So have you kind of listed some of those things out or created that, or are you still working through that?

Vince  10:21

So it’s tough, because the thing is, I’ve the way I’ve approached all this content. I have a couple of different philosophies, and I think from that, it leads me to a level of paralysis. So let me explain one lane of thinking, yeah.

Vince  10:35

One is, maybe I should target marketing agencies, because the idea is one I could, I could partner with the agency. They get the idea of the value of a podcast, they they would be able to promote that thing and do all of the work around it like that. Could be a good potential partnership.

Vince  10:49

And with that, if I’m getting the right kind of agency, then they would have the opportunity to also recommend me to their clients, because I’m working with them, like, what?

Vince  10:59

What better referral partner than saying, Hey, we’re working with this company. You should work with them too. So I’ve thought about that as an ideal kind of client, client. And obviously there’s a million marketing agencies out there.

Vince  11:10

So from that standpoint, it just, you know, then I overthink it, because I’m like, Well, do they offer podcasting? Are they just going to steal it from me? Like part of me is gun shy to go after marketing agencies as much as I think they’re ideal. And…

Rob  11:24

So, all right, let me stop you there. Let me ask you a question. Let’s say you, let’s say you go after a marketing agency. You pitch the idea, they have podcasting, and they start taking the idea, right?

Rob  11:33

Okay, you didn’t get that business, but you didn’t have the business now to begin with. So what would what would what would stop you from just calling and finding out? Because you never know more.

Rob  11:40

Nine times out of here’s what I found, nine times out of 10. When I feel like that feeling of, oh, they’re gonna do this, or they’re gonna do that, or it’s get a little bit they don’t they that they have enough stuff going on in their lives already. They don’t think about, oh, you know, we could just take that on.

Rob  11:56

We’re gonna do they don’t feel like doing that. That’s not their specialty. That’s not their their wheelhouse. Now, if they already have that service, that’s one thing, right? But if they don’t have it, and they go, Well, we could start doing this. I mean, my attitude for you would be, go ahead, try.

Rob  12:10

I already got all these things set up, but go ahead, I’m gonna out run you, because I’m gonna call it five other people too. Or, why not call 10 marketing agencies, and let’s try it, see what happens, right?

Rob  12:20

So to me, it’s there. I get the fear of it, but I also think there’s a piece of that which is like, Hey, so what I look at, even just in the town or city that I’m in, or the area that I’m in, there is so much business in this area, there are other people that do what I do it.

Rob  12:36

I can’t, I can’t serve all of them. There’s just no way I could right? While it’s It feels very like competitive to me. It. I just look at it and go, Okay, go ahead. You want to go to the same client?

Rob  12:47

Go ahead. I don’t care. I can work on selling it now, no, probably earlier than you will. If I can figure out whether or not they’re going to go with me or somebody else, I can figure that earlier than you will. So you go ahead and waste your time on it. That’s fine, you know what I mean?

Rob  13:10

Because I just know that’s how it works. I had a call today, for example, they had a problem with somebody else doing the same type of work, and they needed help fixing that problem now, and after, I think, probably three questions, there was no way in the world I was going to work with that person, because the problem wasn’t that other, other, other thunder, if you will, whatever you like.

Rob  13:10

It was that person calling me honest. That’s the way it felt. And I was like, There’s no way I’m touching that with a 10 foot pole. So football. So the fear is totally understandable. I get it. I used to do that too, all the time, but I think you got to try it. I would reach out to 10 right now. Like, just start, just start calling them and see what happens.

Vince  13:33

Yeah, okay, no, I’m open to that. I mean, I’m actually just the idea of getting on the phone too. Like, how much do you mean, call them? Let me ask you that. How is it? How do you value calling versus sending an email?

Rob  13:45

Oh, a calling every time I was much better. Let me tell you a little fun trick that I used so somebody taught me this, and I’ll teach you and teach everybody else listening, and you can use it as much as you want. It’s kind of a cool little trick. Here’s what I do. I call up somebody, and I it always goes to voicemail.

Rob  13:55

I don’t care if you know, if you call in and you go to the admin in the front or somebody that’s answering the phone, and they direct you to the right person, they never answer right that’s okay, but what I typically will do is I will call and leave this voicemail.

Rob  14:14

I will say, “Oh, Hi, sorry. This is Rob. I’m calling from I have a nail, I have a note on my desk, and I have no idea what this means. I’m hoping you can help me with this. It says I needed to call you, but I’m not sure why. Let me just cut through some red tape. Here’s my cell phone. Call me back when you have a second. It’ll probably take five minutes or less. I’m guessing somebody just want me to talk to talk to you. Thanks. And here’s my number, right?”

Rob  14:44

Very quick, very like, I don’t know what to say, but they call me back nine times out of 10. The one time that they don’t I just they don’t. Either they get the message or they just don’t listen to their voicemail. Fine.

Rob  14:55

They almost always call me back. And I’ve had people get on the phone with me and go. Like, what’s this about? And I’m like, well, somebody, somebody left on my, on my desk, that I needed to call you.

Rob  15:05

I don’t know why. I was hoping you could help me. And they Yeah, and make, make it their problem. Like, this is, this becomes a game then. So I just say, What? What? What? What do you think they would make me call? Why would they want me to call you? Well, what do you do now?

Rob  15:20

I’ve just now I’m gonna open a reason to tell them my commercial, right? Yeah, I call them and pitch them my commercial. They don’t want to listen to it. But if they’re like, Well, what is this about? Who are you? Well, you know, that’s, you know, good question. I am so sorry.

Rob  15:28

I just dove right into this call. I didn’t even tell you what I do and who I am, sorry. So my name is Rob, and my company is this, and this is what I do. And I give them a very quick, 1015, not even right? And they go almost all the time. They go, huh? That’s weird. Who gave you my number? I don’t know.

Rob  15:46

They just put my put it on my desk. It says your name, this phone number, I don’t know any. Can you think of any reason why? And I’ve had a couple times somebody go. We were just talking about this, and they probably just told, you know, they probably knew somebody that knew somebody you want to talk real quick now, okay, and I’m in right now. It starts.

Rob  16:06

So that’s an easy trick. It takes all the pressure off you. You have no pressure. Because if they go, I don’t know who you are, I don’t know. Why would you would even think that I need your services?

Rob  16:14

Why would I even need a podcast? I don’t know. And my answer is always like, I don’t know. I don’t know. I thought it was kind of crazy too. But listen, I’m just following orders.

Rob  16:25

They just kind of laugh, and they just think it’s okay, and no harm, no foul. And then I almost always would, would end it with, you know, you probably don’t need it now, that’s totally fine. Would you mind if I got your email?

Rob  16:37

Just send you a quick note. So thank you. First of all, and then you have my contact. If you ever did want to talk about it, you have it. And then last then last piece would be, if you think of somebody that might need it, would you mind just shooting them an email with my contact and they they say, yes.

Rob  16:48

Have I ever gotten an email from that? No, but could it happen? Yes. So it takes all the pressure off, and it’s a fun little call to make.

Vince  16:57

That’s that’s so fascinating. I love that that’s such a really sneaky way in it.

Rob  17:00

Really it is fascinating. And I didn’t when somebody told me this, I thought they were crazy. I’m like, how could I do that? And my first question was, are you, why would you start it out with a lie? And I’m like, well, it’s not a lie.

Rob  17:11

Somebody. I just have somebody write it down and put it on my desk. It’s not a lie. I’m like, Oh, interesting. Okay. And he goes, if you wrote it down, forgot you wrote it down and put it on your desk. Is that?

Rob  17:23

Well, no, I’m the only one in my office. How could anyway, but it’s not really starting out a lie. It’s more of a it’s more of a tactic to try to get somebody to at least be inquisitive about what you do.

Rob  17:30

And it works, and it’s a fun little and it takes the pressure off, because if they say, Get out of here, I don’t want to talk to you, you go, yeah, I didn’t think so. It’s totally fine. It’s fun.

Vince  17:39

Okay, yeah, no, I do like that, and it is so hard to break through, because that’s that’s been the hard thing. I mean, just obviously getting somebody to answer a call in itself is such a hard thing to do.

Vince  17:49

And what kind of voicemail do you leave? But I definitely prefer my ability to talk more than type. So yeah, to be able to lean on that.

Rob  17:58

Well think about all the emails you get in a day that you just go, I don’t I mean, just for this part. I mean, you, you, you do podcasting. I do podcast. I get people calling me and are reaching out in my email, like, oh, we want to do this.

Rob  18:09

We want to promote that. We want to do this one. And they’re selling themselves to be on the podcast, or they’re selling themselves to do something for my website. It’s like I didn’t know who I am. They just just blanket and nobody really reads those, right?

Rob  18:21

Nobody reads those. So be different than everybody else, and they’ll, I will say this, if you ever call that person back, that you had that in that call back, that you started that call with, where I just called you because somebody gave me your name on my on my desk, if you called them back, they would remember, you guarantee it.

Rob  18:35

Yeah, because nobody else calls that way. That’s the truth. Yeah, yes, yes, I love that. So, so, you know, that’s part of the part of the process you’re growing quickly, and that once you kind of identify who that is, I mean, I would even say, could you start with a local chamber or a local networking group and start asking for those types of referrals too?

Rob  18:55

Because that’s a people forget to go. If they go to a chamber event, they’ve always forget to network the right way, which is actually ask for a referral and try to try to get referrals to come in instead of, Hi, I’m and shaking my hand. And that’s, that’s great, but, you know, talking about it. But have you done some of the local stuff too?

Vince  19:12

So yeah, I’ve done a lot of local stuff. Because for me, it was, that was the first thing coming from the local studio, physical space, right? It was this whole progression of, I’m going to join a bunch of local network groups and try network groups.

Vince  19:18

I’m trying some chambers of commerce and things like that, and I’m just going to see what’s out there and get a feel for these landscapes, and occasionally make those investments, like I’m going to join these groups and go for a couple of months and be there consistently and build my name out.

Vince  19:34

But, you know, a lot of them go bust, and that’s fine, but it was good to have the experience of those things, and build some relationships, and just get a feel for the market. So yeah, that’s that’s what’s helped sharpen everything a bit. Is okay. I know how to be in in person with people.

Vince  19:49

I know how to maintain a relationship from there. And occasionally, do have people that reach out eight months later and they’ll go, Hey, Vince, actually, I’m ready for this thing. Are you good? And it’s like, Yes, I am. Well, thank you. For calling. So yeah, so I know enough of like, the relationship building aspect, and I will get referrals regularly enough where, where people you know are just like through LinkedIn, DMS, they’ll connect.

Vince  20:10

But yeah, finding those better places, I guess, as much as I’m learning the ecosystem of all the different kinds of networking groups that are out there, the hardest thing is to find the places that I don’t know.

Vince  20:21

So it’s like, yeah, yeah. I think it’s this marketing Avenue where it could be referrals, but it could be health tech, and because Philly, I’m in Philadelphia, and there’s a lot of that around here, so maybe I’m getting into, like, the Health Sciences space and going after that.

Vince  20:37

But then I it’s like, I’m already running this business and doing all of this work and prospecting the way that I do, which has some level of effectiveness, but yeah, like trying to, so that’s the biggest thing, too. I get this paralysis of, like, what is that best next step to go after hire people in the most efficient way? Because I only have so much time, so I keep punting the decision to do it.

Rob  20:59

Yeah? I mean, that’s normal, but that’s usually a matter of just taking the first step. So one of the things that will fix any sales problem is action, and that is just taking the phone and picking it up and doing it or going in networking.

Rob  21:11

I mean, listen, I The other thing that I’ve started to do, which is, is different than I used to do, which is, as I’m part of the chamber, what I will do is, I will literally ask for different lunch meetings from people that are at a level that I shouldn’t be sitting having lunch with.

Rob  21:25

And that’s it’s very uncomfortable for me. I’ve had lunches with people that I’m like, I don’t belong here, one on one, and it’s crazy, but nobody asks them. And I’m networking. I’ve gotten to know some of these people a little bit in a networking setting.

Rob  21:36

And then just somewhere along the line, I just mentioned, you know, we should grab lunch sometime. Be interesting to learn a little bit more about you guys, just because I don’t know enough about what you guys do. If nothing else, you eat lunch. I eat lunch.

Rob  21:48

Let’s just do it together. And like, Yeah, let’s do it. And so even the marketing agencies, even though some of those other referral sources, people that see the same clients, those are the kinds of people you want to have lunch with.

Rob  21:59

And, you know, use that to your advantage, because now you have them captively to just get to know them a little bit, right? And and eventually, and, listen, I never try to sell anybody at lunch either.

Rob  22:08

Like, that’s never the thing. Yeah, it’s always about having lunch, right? But it’s they always ask, well, you know, how do you guys do this? How do you do that? What do you guys do? How does that work? You know, they always ask. So, because I’m always asking them.

Rob  22:21

But by the way, have about 10 or 15 really weird, different, I say weird, deep questions to ask them that maybe somebody else hasn’t asked them before, even, like, I’ve even asked people like, you know, what are some of the things you’re reading right now? Or, really, you’re what are you learning about right now? What do you guys do with AI? How do you guys do, you know, some of those types of questions?

Rob  22:39

Because I find that nobody really starts to ask those and obviously they’re all ingrained in their own work, right?

Vince  22:46

Yeah, now, and the curiosity thing is big. I completely believe in that. I mean, for one of the things I can say from a sales side, that has worked, because for me, I go on podcast to sell what I do, and it makes sense.

Vince  22:57

I’m talking to podcast owners from different businesses, and like, it’s great, they hear me talk for an hour, and they go, he gets it. I got to work with him. You? With him, so. But to be able to have those conversations, I’m not selling to the host.

Vince  23:08

I’m just talking about what I do, and I’m treating it like lunch. And then by the end of it, once they’re done recording, if they want to talk to me about they go, Hey, actually, I’ve been having a hard time, my downloads are stuck. And like, great, you know.

Vince  23:16

So that’s that’s all well and good. So yeah, but to be able to translate that then and just really it sounds like just commit the time to finding one of those lanes and going for it. So marketing makes a lot of sense, just finding some marketing groups and aiming for bigger fish,

Rob  23:33

Yep, yep. No, I think that’s totally the case. So you know, one of the things we talked about a little bit earlier too briefly, was this ability to convert for some of your clients, walk me through some of that challenge,

Vince  23:45

So when I’m working with a client, let’s say it’s a coach, right? So I’ll help them come up with all of this content, and it’s very much about the exact problem they solve, and it’s very informative and it’s engaging, and we’re posting about it.

Vince  23:57

We’re creating video clips, and we’re doing it on different platforms, and the show is available on YouTube in addition to Spotify and Apple and everything else. So it’s quality content on every promotional channel that they’ve got. It’s about what they do.

Vince  24:10

It’s related to their offers. It’s to the target audience. All of that is great, even if they have the right audience. Though the sales gap is real, and it’s, you know, I can help them build the audience and get the attention and get the awareness and get that up, but I can’t guarantee them sales, because I don’t build their sales system.

Vince  24:30

I’m getting them leads in the funnel, but I’m not building their system and trying to think about ways to bridge that gap a little bit and maximize the sales aspect of the content is really huge.

Vince  24:43

And when you think about it, for me, I’m selling to them high ticket, right? Like these coaches, consultants, you get a client for six months at even $1,000 a month. Hey, that’s 6k like, that’s, you get two sales a year. Like, you’re killing it through this show. So, like, that’s my sale. That’s.

Vince  24:59

That’s my pitch to them, but yeah, ultimately, their sales process isn’t always good at capitalizing on it and fully converting people. So I don’t know what to do with that space that feels out of my grasp.

Rob  25:12

So my first question, or kind of going a little bit a little bit backwards in order, if you will, you let’s back up to the your sales process. Sure, which is you’re pitching them. This is, you know, Yeah, boy, if you sell, does this? You sell this?

Rob  25:26

You know, one of the things I always try to make sure that I share with people is, if you can make it about their data, not yours, the bet you’re better off. So in other words, I would always ask questions, and maybe I should just ask you, are you asking them questions about, you know, hey, if you did this podcast and you ended up, I mean, what’s your goal with this podcast?

Rob  25:50

Like, let’s, let’s role play it real quick. What’s your goal? Like, you’re, you’re a client, I’m you, and I’m trying to sell you to get on this podcast. And I say, What is your goal with trying to create this podcast?

Vince  26:02

Yeah, well, it’s tough because a lot of times they’ll say the wrong thing, which is, I want to get a lot of downloads, and I want to be really I want to be really popular. I want to, yeah, I want to get a couple of down. I want to get a lot of downloads, and I want to get a sponsor, is what they’ll say.

Rob  26:12

Okay, okay. And have you done any research on how that works?

Vince  26:16

So no, I don’t. And, yeah, no, I have no idea how that works.

Rob  26:21

Okay. And so what do you think the sponsor is going to look for?

Vince  26:25

So I think they’re going to look for big download numbers. And so I need to just do whatever I can, which is why I want to get a lot of guests. And hopefully those guests promote the show for me, and eventually they’ll bring their audience and I’ll, you know, I’ll get a big following and be super rich and famous through sponsors.

Rob  26:46

Sounds, sounds cool, like everybody should do this, right? Yeah, oh, I don’t know why we’re not. I mean, of course I agree. Yeah. So when, when you, when you start this podcast? Let’s pretend you have all that. You have 1000 downloads a second, like, it’s going crazy. Why are you doing this?

Vince  27:05

Yeah, I I just, I just want to get sponsors and, like, this is the thing. This is where people do stutter and stall a lot because they haven’t thought of that next step, which is why it’s so much Rerouting.

Rob  27:16

So, yeah, so then I’m sure you kind of take them down this road of, like, can I tell youwhy some of the other people have started their podcast and why they do what they do? And, okay, yeah, so you do that.

Rob  27:27

So by doing that, you’re putting them in their frame of mind that you want them to be in, right, which is thinking about it in terms of the future and what they look like they can get into, and where they’re going to get returns.

Rob  27:36

But so you get through that process, a little bit of having that conversation, what, when you add and I’m sure you do, but let’s say you ask the question, you know, you have your podcast up and running, you get a lead that comes in, what’s your process?

Vince  27:51

So for them, like, I’m what’s my process for running their show? Then everything’s…

Rob  27:57

No, no. So when you’re interviewing them in the beginning, what’s you’re asking them? What’s your process? Once you get a lead that comes in, what? What do you do? Then,

Vince  28:06

Okay, yeah, and you ask that. So, no, I don’t ask it consistently enough. Honestly. The only way that I have asked it is like, what is your call to I will say, what is your call to action, but okay, I I’ll ask that in the context of building the show.

Vince  28:20

Like, okay, well, once we have people’s attention, where do you want them to go? And I so I’ll kind of lean into it that way of where, where would you like? What would you like them to do?

Vince  28:27

So a lot of times, that’s, hey, I want them to follow me on LinkedIn, or, which I don’t think is a great CTA either, but that’s, that’s what they ask for sometimes, and then other times it’s just as simple as I want them to book a call.

Rob  28:40

Yeah? So let’s say they book a call. What happens then? Like work, keep, just keep drilling them. That’s what I feel like you would end up doing, but, but I also then would ask the question of you, which is, if you took let’s say they are talking to you about doing a podcast, but now they hung up the phone and they call five other people that do what you do, and do they ask the exact same questions?

Vince  29:04

Oh, honestly, no, I don’t. I don’t think a lot of people do, like other production companies, do they ask the same questions that I do? No, yeah. I think a lot of times it feels like very impersonal and cold, and they just say yes to whatever you want in terms of what the show actually is.

Vince  29:20

And it’s a lot more of, how can we charge you a lot of money to do a lot of production at an over bloated cost? Is what people How do you know that? So just from what I’ve seen with a lot of the offerings, it’s like, Hey, we’re gonna give you 10 different clips from this single show.

Vince  29:35

And it’s like, this person posts twice a week. What are they gonna do with 10 clips per episode on a weekly show? You know? So, yeah, they just want to stuff content down people’s throats, and that’s been the strategy, because that’s what they sell, is, oh, we’re going to give you all of this production.

Rob  29:51

So do you, and again, I dug in a little bit into your website, but I didn’t go very far. So do you offer more custom programs, or do you offer packages?

Vince  30:00

Yes, so I’m more customized, and I’m trying to simplify that actually, and be more standard with packages, because I think I’m too all over the place.

Rob  30:09

Do other people out for packages, or are they more custom?

Vince  30:11

So I think they’re more packaged like, you know, tier one, tier two, tier three.

Rob  30:15

So should you be like everybody else?

Vince  30:19

Well, and that’s, that’s the existential question, where, in a lot of ways, no, I don’t want to be like everybody else, and that’s why I’ve leaned so much in the strategy, yeah,

Rob  30:27

And when you’re talking to them and they, does anybody ever say to you on the in the beginning of this call to say, Hey, listen, I want to, I want to pull this stuff together. And then you found out that they have, you ever found out that they’ve already talked to like, five or six other or three other, whatever, production companies?

Vince  30:41

Occasionally, I’ll find out that they talk to some other companies after I’ve landed the sale, like it’ll be, it’ll be a month after, okay, come in, yeah,

Rob  30:49

I would ask that question way before the sale, because what you’re going to learn is either they have not and they have no idea, or they have talked to five other or three other, whatever it is, and you know which, and if you they’re willing to share.

Rob  31:03

I would ask, you know, which ones have you talked to? Just kind of care, kind of curious, because I’m trying to make sure that I’m comparing what you’re looking for versus what I do.

Rob  31:13

Because a lot of these other companies, they offer packages and they do different things, but I tend to not do packages because, I mean, I guess I just look at podcasts saying these should have your feel, your flavor, your approach, and shouldn’t be the same as everybody else’s.

Rob  31:22

I mean, which? I mean maybe I’m wrong, and in the sales process, I mean, maybe I’m wrong, but which do you prefer more of a cookie cutter approach for you, or would you prefer somebody that’s more kind of custom to what you need? Yeah. I mean, nine times out of 10 they’re gonna say,

Vince  31:36

Yeah. I definitely like the custom approach, but on Yeah, so I’m trying to wrangle with the right balance between the two. Yeah,

Rob  31:44

Yeah, I think it depends on how fast and how quick and easy you can scale. If it’s just you running it, versus up team. How many more people can you add at that profit levels, versus Hey, it’s going to be just you doing it.

Rob  31:58

Let’s say, and I’m not, I’m not. This is for anybody listening. If you’re trying to price things out, and you’re saying, Hey, this is a package deal, and these are the packages I sell. You’re going to be limited to the number of packages you can sell and execute, right?

Rob  32:07

And maybe that’s enough, but if you had a team, then that’s also but wouldn’t it be nice to have the option of saying, Yeah, you know, I don’t have packages because everybody’s a little bit different. You don’t need 10 videos. You need two, because that’s what’s really important.

Rob  32:22

We want two good quality ones. So with those two good quality ones you’re going to have, you’re going to put them where you need them. They’re going to be the right things.

Rob  32:30

But we’re not doing extra work, just to say we’re doing extra work right and it’s going to be effective for you. So, and maybe because we’re only, you’re only going to get two videos, it’s, it’s going to be this rate or one rate, but if you needed more, it’s another rate, and it’s more custom to what you need.

Rob  32:46

But now your dollar amount can be based on, really, what, honestly, the way I would be said, as their pain level, and what they’re going to get out of it, right, if they’re going to. And this is why I always ask the question about, you know, let’s say you make a sale out of this.

Rob  32:59

What does that look like? How much does that bring in for you? Because, I mean, I don’t know what coaching costs, but, like, if a coach, if you’re, if it’s, you’re gonna make $200 Why is it even worth doing this? If it’s going to be, no, it’s gonna be a $6,000 bill every month that I’m gonna get. Okay? Is that a lot or is that a little? Like, I don’t know what that means. And let make them explain this is really worth it for for them, right?

Vince  33:20

Yeah, and that’s the thing. I think a lot of times people do. I had a conversation with that, with a with a client this morning. It was literally like, Hey, you’re, you know, if you’re gonna get a single coaching client for this certain service that you offer that’s $2,000 in your pocket, like, we need to, we need to go and go after that.

Vince  33:36

And let’s, let’s pursue getting a few of those through this content. Like, that’s what it needs to be. But at the same time it’s just yeah, like, then it gets to the point of, like, Okay, I agree with all this, and the content is around that.

Vince  33:45

But then their ability to take people through the funnel, after I’ve gotten them the top of the funnel, that’s, I think, yes, that’s, that’s it. It’s like, Oh, I’ve built this top of funnel for you, but I’ve, I’m not controlling the bottom. And so it just feels like it’s out, yeah, totally.

Rob  34:03

And I think that’s where, that’s why you have all these conversations about your piece first, and they’re then asking them about their funnel and what they do. And then, I mean, you got to ask the question, like, Okay, what happens?

Rob  34:14

What happens if you get, you know, so many leads and or you just don’t get any, you get a few leads and you don’t do anything with them, or you don’t close them. How is that going to play out?

Rob  34:23

Because I know everybody gets busy, but you know you’re going to be locked into something with this a little bit. And you know you’re gonna have a term that you’re gonna have to work with if we’re gonna be doing this for six months, I don’t want you to look at it and go, boy, I didn’t get anything.

Rob  34:36

But in reality, you got 17 calls, and none of them closed. How do you want me to deal with that? That’s a heck of a question, right? But that’s their problem, not yours, but it’s it’s squarely placing it on their shoulders by asking them,

Rob  34:50

What do you want me to do about that? Because they know that it’s theirs, they’re going to try to blame that it didn’t do anything. And then the other question I would have for you would be, how do you know how many calls came in? Do you have a way of measuring that so.

Vince  34:59

So, no, I don’t, I don’t measure the calls explicitly. I mean, yeah, the best stats that I measure are, like, social media data and the download numbers for the show.

Rob  35:09

Okay, so part of your package could be, we’ll set up a phone number for you, you know, route to your phone, but you’ll be able to measure, then how many calls they got. Yeah, that expensive to do, right?

Vince  35:21

Yeah. Or I have a, I have a CRM system that I use, and I’m partnered with a guy who, like, built it. So it’s, it’s his own custom app built on lead connector, so I know how that system works. I use it for my whole call process, being able to book people and schedule and track so it’s, it’s not one of those things I’ve been ready to, like, make a commitment to offer that too. But I’ve definitely thought about, like, how can I pair up this sales element further, and is that something I offer, or do I partner with somebody on that? And I’ve really been looking to try to find the solution for it

Rob  35:54

well. And I think there’s it goes the same with any marketing agency, really, right? It’s, how do you measure the success of this, and is that a question you ask of somebody that’s going to be doing the podcast, right? What? How do you measure that?

Rob  36:01

This is success like you fast forward it. You have all these episodes, but what’s a success to you, right? But you’ve got to on the other side of this. Know, what’s really success in the end is how many calls did they get? How many deals closed?

Rob  36:17

And you can’t control how many deals close if you’re not part of the sale process. So you got at least know the numbers that come in. And how do you know that? And I think that’s be the key to know, if there’s a possibility, can you get a number of leads that came in where email or or otherwise, that you can then at least see the number? We don’t to control it, but at least see it.

Vince  36:38

Yeah, because let me ask you this is a side step out of curiosity, because part of what I’m selling to these people is your awareness is going to go up significantly. And what I’m going to do is put you in the room for all of these different strategic conversations and relationship building through the show.

Vince  36:52

So if I can say, Okay, well, we went, you went up 500 total followers on your account or your you know your over the bulk of your accounts, your engagement levels have peaked significantly. So your your level of engagement and likes and all that stuff, sharing like that’s all gone up.

Vince  37:12

So you’re clearly grown in terms of what your footprint is and your awareness level. I’ve gotten you connections and conversations with potential referral partner, a B, C and D, and this potential client, A, B, C, that lines up, and these have been guests on your show, like, it’s, is that? Is that a fair thing?

Vince  37:31

Then to just say, like, that is the value and the sales part. You know what I mean? Like, I’m trying to because there’s clearly value in all of those things, and it leads to the sale, but it’s not explicitly the sale, and it is, it does separate me versus them,

Rob  37:46

Yeah. So that goes kind of full circle to what we talked about earlier, which is, that’s what you think is important, but what’s important to them? Yeah, and if that’s important to them, then that’s what you need to verify.

Rob  37:59

And then you also need to have say, this is the value that you’re getting out of this, in your estimate, in your proposal, when you finally present it, it’s like, okay, so I think one of the things we talked about was you’re going to do this many episodes.

Rob  38:19

You’re going to do this many blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. As part of this, what you’re going to see is you want to have this much notoriety. You’re going to have this much you know, whatever you just went through all the different measurements that they would say, are there, are important, or if they didn’t say any of them, that’s not an issue for them, they don’t care. Yeah. So, yeah.

Rob  38:27

So you gotta, you gotta, you gotta bind that all together so that their need is exactly what you’re providing in the end, because otherwise you’re pitching. And that’s why, I mean this, honestly, that’s why we call it The Slow Pitch.

Rob  38:39

The idea behind the slow pitch is slow everything way down as much as possible. Within reason, if you wait two weeks to call somebody back, that’s never going to be helpful, right? But when they’re excited, you need to step back a second and go hold it.

Rob  38:52

Well, wait a second. I know you’re excited about putting together a podcast here, but why? And make them explain it, because they need to sell you, right? That’s the whole idea behind slowing things down.

Rob  39:02

But in the end, when it comes right down to finalizing and getting that pen on the paper, to say, Yes, this is what I want to do, it’s based on their pain, their problems, what they’re trying to solve.

Rob  39:11

And does this solve my problem as well as I think it should be able to solve. I can’t control whether or not they can close a sale at the end, but if I can tie all the other things together that are emotional and then make them understand or make sure that we’re on the same page that, listen, I can only control what comes in.

Rob  39:29

You are, remember, we’re on the same page here that you’re going to close the sales after that, right? Like, I’m not, unless you want me to do the sales. I can do like, I mean, you can joke about like, I can, I can close the sales for you if you want to.

 

Rob  39:40

That’s just a different rate, and they’re gonna say, no, no, I got it. It just helps reinforce. It’s a joke, but it’s reinforces. Yeah, that’s your job, dude, not mine. Yeah, okay, yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I’m not sure where we should go next, if anything. Or are you comfortable with what we’ve talked about so far?

Vince  39:56

I feel like that’s plenty. I mean, yeah, just from the standpoint. Understanding landscape potential next steps, of places to go, after people, ways to open up the conversation with the way to call, like, yeah, that’s, that’s a lot.

Rob  40:07

Okay, perfect. In fact, my next thing was going to ask you to tell me something you pulled out of this, but you just did. Ta da Perfect. Thank you. I appreciate it. So, all right. So for anybody listening, I guess let me just switch over.

Rob  40:18

First of all, Vince, thank you so much for being on the show and being a part of this, because to me, this was always it’s always helpful. It’s helpful for people to understand what it’s like to do any sort of coaching a little bit behind this.

Rob  40:41

Obviously, this is just a public version of that, right? We get into little more details in a coaching session, but I really appreciate you being a part of the show and helping people understand what you’re going through, what you do, but also, like, if there’s anybody that’s out there that says, you know, I’ve always talked about putting together a podcast for marketing reasons, for my business, they can reach out to you.

Rob  40:52

So what I’m gonna ask is it, what’s the best website they can reach you at, and also, what’s the best way they can contact you?

Vince  40:58

Yeah, so if they want to sit down, if you listening, want to sit down and talk with me about your podcast or starting a podcast for your business, go to FreePodcastHelp.com. How’s that for a domain? Baby? FreePodcastHelp.com and get you a free 30-minute Compass Call with me.

Vince  41:14

So it’s talking about everything with your business, the show, and it’s very focused strategy call. It’s not like a GET TO KNOW you sort of thing. So free podcasthelp.com, for that. Or if you want to listen to my podcast that is all about these things as well, alignment at its finest, then the show is called, “It’s Not Just Talking”, and that’s on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere you get your podcast.

Rob  41:36

All right, Vince, I appreciate it. And for those of you listening, if you wanted to go through something like this, or you have a question of your own and would like to be a guest on the show, please reach out at Questions@TheSlowPitch.com, I’d be happy to talk through it.

Rob  41:49

Or if you just need some of your own coaching separately, happy to do that as well. Again. Thank you, Vince, until next time, remember everybody Slow Down and you’ll Close More.

V/O  41:58

Thank you for listening to The Slow Pitch. Do you have a question about sales? Call or text your question at (608) 708-SLOW. That’s (608) 708-7569, or you can email them to Questions@TheSlowPitch.com. Slow Down and Close More.